Aug. 24, 2020

Conversations That Lead to Conversions with Paul Ace

Conversations That Lead to Conversions with Paul Ace
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Season 2

In this episode, host Eric Dickmann interviews Paul Ace. Paul is the founder of Amplify C-COM , an AI-based messenger bot system that turns leads into conversations using an 80% human-like experience and a 20% human experience, so you can close more sales and reduce customer support time.

He created a specific solution for each customer, he worked with John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneurs On Fire and 8 figure trail-blazer Pete Vargas.

Paul shares how to use AI & chatbots in conversation to create a human experience with specific steps to gather information and present solutions in a dynamic way to increase conversions.

amplifyccom

Listener Offer: Free success mapping session: https://www.amplifyccom.com/home

Eric Dickmann can be found on Twitter @EDickmann and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/edickmann and my website https://ericdickmann.com

Paul Ace can found online at amplifyccom & LinkedIn @paulace.

For more information about Virtual CMO strategic marketing consulting services, visit The Five Echelon Group at https://fiveechelon.com

Episode #22

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WEBVTT

00:00:08.833 --> 00:00:12.839
Welcome to season two of The Virtual CMO podcast.

00:00:13.048 --> 00:00:16.768
I'm your host, Eric Dickmann, founder of The Five Echelon Group.

00:00:17.158 --> 00:00:27.388
Our goal is to share strategies, tools, and tactics with fellow marketing professionals that you can use to impact the trajectory of your company's marketing programs.

00:00:27.838 --> 00:00:36.524
We have candid conversations about what works, and what doesn't, with marketing tactics, customer experience, design and automation tools.

00:00:36.853 --> 00:00:45.253
Our goal is to provide value each week with a roster of thoughtful and informative guests engaged in a lively conversation.

00:00:45.734 --> 00:00:48.734
This week, I'm excited to bring Paul Ace to the podcast.

00:00:48.944 --> 00:00:51.194
Paul is the founder of Amplify.

00:00:51.234 --> 00:01:06.864
C, COM an AI based messenger bots system that turns leads into conversations using an 80% human-like experience and a 20% human experience so you can close more sales and reduce customer support time.

00:01:07.073 --> 00:01:12.774
He has helped hundreds of companies improve conversions and reduce the overall cost per acquisition.

00:01:13.194 --> 00:01:20.664
Some of his clients include John Lee Dumas from Entrepreneurs on Fire and eight figure trailblazer, Pete Vargas.

00:01:21.054 --> 00:01:23.364
Please help me welcome Paul to the podcast.

00:01:27.224 --> 00:01:29.323
Paul welcome to the virtual CMO podcast.

00:01:29.353 --> 00:01:30.573
So glad you could join us today.

00:01:32.504 --> 00:01:35.353
Thanks Eric, Great to be on the show.

00:01:35.444 --> 00:01:36.343
Really excited to be here.

00:01:37.034 --> 00:01:44.504
So I've gotta ask you read a little bit in your biography that you've got singing in your background and happened to have an affinity for 50s rock and rollers.

00:01:44.713 --> 00:01:47.953
What got you into singing and what attracted you to 50s?

00:01:47.983 --> 00:01:48.884
Rock and roll.

00:01:49.543 --> 00:01:54.504
So my wife's family, they're all massively into 50s.

00:01:54.724 --> 00:01:58.593
so we, we started against this in my 50s rock and roll kind of do's and.

00:01:59.103 --> 00:02:01.653
Then I realize that that suited my voice as well.

00:02:01.653 --> 00:02:06.793
And my personality with the kind of over the top, excitement.

00:02:07.304 --> 00:02:16.313
So got into singing and then ended up doing what in singing and that kind of transition to get me into markets in as I was, as a lot of people seem to.

00:02:16.644 --> 00:02:18.114
It's kind of weird.

00:02:18.114 --> 00:02:21.473
The amount of people that are in marketing that came from a music background.

00:02:22.144 --> 00:02:23.223
which is really strange.

00:02:23.824 --> 00:02:27.204
A lot of the bigger names, in that space, which is really cool.

00:02:27.354 --> 00:02:31.283
So yeah, that I just kind of transitioned and I was like, actually I like the markets and even more than the music.

00:02:31.734 --> 00:02:33.894
So the marketing, was it related to the music?

00:02:33.924 --> 00:02:37.873
Were you trying to market your singing abilities or your position as a wedding singer?

00:02:37.903 --> 00:02:38.623
How did that work?

00:02:38.653 --> 00:02:39.493
What was the transition?

00:02:40.123 --> 00:02:43.903
Yeah, we, so we actually created an info product, at the time.

00:02:44.503 --> 00:02:48.343
And, we were like, we create this thing called a dream money and secrets box.

00:02:48.663 --> 00:02:50.433
cause it was like, well, that'd be, that'd be great.

00:02:50.463 --> 00:02:51.663
You know, that's what brides want.

00:02:51.663 --> 00:02:52.234
They want a dream.

00:02:52.264 --> 00:02:56.133
What in, so, and then obviously it had a plug for my stuff in there as well.

00:02:56.383 --> 00:02:57.403
We started creating those.

00:02:57.433 --> 00:03:00.403
We sold like 250 of them, which was awesome.

00:03:00.653 --> 00:03:08.274
looking back now, I realized it was a self liquidating offer and I could have literally just scaled the hell out of it, but I didn't.

00:03:09.443 --> 00:03:10.854
Cause I was like, Oh, it's not making money.

00:03:11.294 --> 00:03:19.033
so then that transitioned into this other business completely, which was like, okay, well, the brides really won and they won a bridesmaid's dresses at a reasonable price.

00:03:19.334 --> 00:03:20.743
So we ended up.

00:03:21.614 --> 00:03:23.984
We built a group of three and a half thousand brides.

00:03:24.193 --> 00:03:25.243
I asked him what they wanted.

00:03:25.274 --> 00:03:26.144
They told us it was that.

00:03:26.174 --> 00:03:30.943
And then we sold over a thousand dresses in, in a few months and they want a little bit.

00:03:31.633 --> 00:03:34.473
Little bit crazy, until we didn't calculate our return policy.

00:03:34.473 --> 00:03:34.804
Right.

00:03:35.074 --> 00:03:43.413
And, then in the space two months we add 24,000 pounds comeback, in two months and Nina went bankrupt.

00:03:44.014 --> 00:03:50.054
So that was like, that was the moment, when you go, you know, when they say that I pay for any moment and I was, Oh my God, like.

00:03:50.864 --> 00:03:52.394
Well, like, I can't do this anymore.

00:03:52.394 --> 00:03:52.783
Right.

00:03:53.864 --> 00:03:56.174
So it was like, but he was a problem.

00:03:56.264 --> 00:03:58.153
I couldn't actually stop spending.

00:03:59.144 --> 00:04:01.424
Because if I'd stop spending all together.

00:04:02.024 --> 00:04:05.533
Then I wouldn't hide the cashflow to actually monies owed tens coming in.

00:04:05.563 --> 00:04:13.633
So I knew these returns to coming back and I'm still putting money in Facebook ads that would be months, but loss less and less each month going, I know this money's coming back.

00:04:13.693 --> 00:04:14.623
I know this is coming back.

00:04:15.133 --> 00:04:20.923
So, I actually got like a postmaster phobia, which is also known as being scattered the postman every time.

00:04:20.973 --> 00:04:22.504
every time I heard that, you know, the scanner.

00:04:22.814 --> 00:04:23.053
When this.

00:04:23.334 --> 00:04:23.803
There's that beep.

00:04:24.204 --> 00:04:25.004
Every time that happened.

00:04:25.033 --> 00:04:26.173
I knew another 300 pounds.

00:04:26.173 --> 00:04:26.894
I've gone out my account.

00:04:26.923 --> 00:04:27.494
That's anything to me.

00:04:27.824 --> 00:04:28.814
So what were people doing?

00:04:28.843 --> 00:04:30.913
Getting married and then returning the stuff.

00:04:31.723 --> 00:04:32.651
So because we.

00:04:33.221 --> 00:04:36.341
And this is a thing to learn on return policies, if nothing else is.

00:04:36.442 --> 00:04:38.451
so we had a three month return policy.

00:04:38.721 --> 00:04:42.502
I would just like, look, you can return it for any reason, because we want this to compete with the big boys.

00:04:43.012 --> 00:04:46.911
and so we did that and then after like two months, someone had to return it.

00:04:47.541 --> 00:04:47.661
Okay.

00:04:47.721 --> 00:04:52.701
and just go, yeah, I decided I wanted something that was instead, because here's the thing as well.

00:04:53.122 --> 00:04:54.141
We bridesmaid's dresses.

00:04:54.141 --> 00:04:55.221
There's an advantage to it.

00:04:55.492 --> 00:04:55.791
Right.

00:04:55.822 --> 00:05:00.982
The first advantage is: you don't have, you only have to sell to one person and then you've sold eight.

00:05:01.432 --> 00:05:03.201
Five six, seven, eight copies of it.

00:05:03.232 --> 00:05:04.312
So you're like great.

00:05:04.552 --> 00:05:06.951
So to one person make 400, 500 pounds.

00:05:07.512 --> 00:05:11.711
however, the negative to that is when one bride maids doesn't like.

00:05:11.982 --> 00:05:13.752
The eight, they return all of them.

00:05:15.432 --> 00:05:16.172
So, yeah.

00:05:16.862 --> 00:05:19.172
Then I got to the stage where I was like, okay, a lot.

00:05:19.201 --> 00:05:20.281
We can't do this anymore.

00:05:20.942 --> 00:05:27.062
So I did this graph and anyone who's ever across road, eh, in their business or their life or whatever.

00:05:27.752 --> 00:05:29.343
Why do highly suggest to do this?

00:05:29.822 --> 00:05:31.593
I put a line down the middle and a port.

00:05:31.713 --> 00:05:39.543
What I enjoy, what I don't enjoy and then apply a line across the horizontal that says what I'm good at and what I'm not good at.

00:05:40.353 --> 00:05:40.682
Right.

00:05:40.713 --> 00:05:41.132
Or it's a.

00:05:41.372 --> 00:05:47.822
Thinking more extremes, like what I love and what I hate and what I'm terrible at and what I'm amazing at, what am I a rockstar?

00:05:48.362 --> 00:05:48.632
Right.

00:05:48.663 --> 00:05:59.942
And then what I did is applied everything that I'd ever done in business say from, from accounting to marketing to automations, to managing people, everything's applied it all on there.

00:06:00.153 --> 00:06:06.502
And then the one thing that was at the top was this, And at the time this one thing was messenger.

00:06:06.862 --> 00:06:07.192
Right?

00:06:07.223 --> 00:06:13.762
So that was, that was a start point of what then became C-Com Facebook messenger.

00:06:13.762 --> 00:06:14.033
Yeah.

00:06:14.033 --> 00:06:17.362
So that's one thing that Manny chat or whatever, that's just a platform.

00:06:17.362 --> 00:06:23.872
And then I realized actually, like, it's not just manager, it's this whole conversational experience.

00:06:23.872 --> 00:06:25.583
So then I started going or what about.

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SMS.

00:06:26.452 --> 00:06:27.562
What about voicemail?

00:06:27.593 --> 00:06:30.202
What about personalized video messaging?

00:06:30.413 --> 00:06:36.562
Like how can we reach these people in like every different platform to create this like amazing customer experience?

00:06:36.562 --> 00:06:39.473
So that's like kind of how C-Com was born, which is.

00:06:40.043 --> 00:06:42.052
All about conversational commerce.

00:06:42.333 --> 00:06:48.903
That's a great lead into my next question, which is really what encompasses conversational commerce.

00:06:49.242 --> 00:06:50.322
There's a lot to it, right?

00:06:50.322 --> 00:06:52.812
It's not just chat bots and AI.

00:06:52.892 --> 00:06:54.600
Explain what the term means.

00:06:55.319 --> 00:06:55.769
Yeah.

00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:00.329
And, what's really interesting is why hiring a lot more stuff at the moment.

00:07:00.329 --> 00:07:00.750
And.

00:07:01.259 --> 00:07:03.449
this is sometimes the hardest thing to explain them.

00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:07.079
What we've actually done is we've created a, so we use Monday for project management.

00:07:07.110 --> 00:07:08.129
We've got a board on there.

00:07:08.610 --> 00:07:16.170
and I've actually got patterns of polls brain as a bot, so they can understand the creative side behind what all that encompasses.

00:07:16.170 --> 00:07:18.000
So yes, there's a lot of tools.

00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:18.389
Okay.

00:07:18.389 --> 00:07:25.050
So, like I said, I'm like messenger, SMS, voice mail person, I video messaging, audio messages, all that kind of stuff.

00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:29.100
But it's about understanding from a natural standpoint.

00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:31.709
If you were to have a conversation with someone, how would you speak.

00:07:32.189 --> 00:07:36.720
Don't speak to someone like you, a robot, speak to them, like they're a human.

00:07:37.050 --> 00:07:45.500
So for example, when, when you're putting phrase in, in SMS or messenger installed, Then, like, I don't my punctuation.

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Isn't great.

00:07:46.250 --> 00:07:46.639
Right.

00:07:46.819 --> 00:07:48.350
I, and here's the thing.

00:07:48.350 --> 00:07:50.180
That's kind of intention, a lot of other time.

00:07:50.930 --> 00:07:56.120
Because when you do it like that, Then people feel it's more human because it's got human errors.

00:07:56.750 --> 00:07:57.079
Right.

00:07:57.180 --> 00:08:07.209
so we, when we did, we did a few things at local businesses, awhile back end, it depends on the, you've gotta understand the psychology, but behind the person who is buying.

00:08:07.750 --> 00:08:07.959
Right.

00:08:07.959 --> 00:08:17.065
So if you're selling to all the marketers, you're not gonna have this same kind of conversation as you would have with someone who's having a new kitchen fitted.

00:08:17.576 --> 00:08:17.865
Right.

00:08:18.665 --> 00:08:18.805
So.

00:08:18.805 --> 00:08:26.935
If you, I mean, that kind of conversation with someone, I have a new kitchen fitted, you might type something wrong on purpose, put a delay and say, Oh, sorry.

00:08:26.966 --> 00:08:27.956
I meant to say this.

00:08:28.196 --> 00:08:31.105
And then they're like, wow, this feels so human, such a human experience.

00:08:31.255 --> 00:08:32.905
And it's not about deceiving someone.

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It's about just creating something that feels more human.

00:08:36.275 --> 00:08:41.586
so we create a 28, 80% human like experience.

00:08:42.125 --> 00:08:45.755
And then the 20% human experience, because what tends to happen.

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Yeah, a lot of businesses where this starts is grow.

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They start to scale.

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They've been doing all this human kind of touch points and everything, you know, reaching out to people going, I'll let some of this conversation and then they realize they can't do that at scale.

00:08:59.135 --> 00:09:01.056
He's just, he's just physically not possible.

00:09:01.056 --> 00:09:10.245
If you're running a million, million dollar, a year business or$10 million a year business, you can't personalize everything from a human perspective.

00:09:10.245 --> 00:09:14.716
So what we look at is using the parade or parents of all the 80 20 rule, right?

00:09:14.745 --> 00:09:17.475
80% of the results come from 20% of the actions.

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So we go, right.

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What's the 80% that we can automate to create that top 20% of the action.

00:09:23.775 --> 00:09:27.375
So then we look at automating the human experience around that.

00:09:27.525 --> 00:09:32.505
So, what kind of businesses do you see are having the most success implementing these tools?

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Is there a certain category?

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Is it mostly for sales?

00:09:35.586 --> 00:09:37.775
Is it a combination of sales and service?

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Where people finding the most success?

00:09:40.365 --> 00:09:40.576
Yeah.

00:09:40.576 --> 00:09:46.105
So why, why are all focus is, and we kind of stumbled on this and then run with it.

00:09:46.676 --> 00:09:48.296
Is webinars.

00:09:48.936 --> 00:09:49.206
AC.

00:09:49.296 --> 00:09:51.456
It's working fantastically well for webinars.

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we just started client client go from$31,000 a month to 243,000 in 12 weeks.

00:09:57.615 --> 00:09:58.666
Just because of.

00:09:59.336 --> 00:10:00.716
and, and that's per month as well.

00:10:00.745 --> 00:10:09.806
So it means you can scale a lot more rapidly and it meant, it meant that the systems didn't break at scale because, because we've got this process.

00:10:10.186 --> 00:10:13.916
In there and then we've got this automated followup process as well.

00:10:14.155 --> 00:10:15.985
So the good thing about it, as well as.

00:10:16.826 --> 00:10:18.806
We make a lot of assumptions in marketing.

00:10:19.466 --> 00:10:19.826
Right.

00:10:19.855 --> 00:10:23.096
We got, Oh, this is why this isn't working it like, okay.

00:10:23.096 --> 00:10:26.426
If you asked ask to the customer.

00:10:27.515 --> 00:10:28.985
no, but this is why it's not working.

00:10:28.985 --> 00:10:31.686
Like how do you know, like what date or if you got to support that.

00:10:31.686 --> 00:10:36.245
So then we'll look at the data and well, we'll do things like, just find out what went wrong.

00:10:36.696 --> 00:10:37.745
Say, Hey, what went wrong?

00:10:37.806 --> 00:10:46.475
And then we'll pull that information to Google sheet and then we'll use our own tools to analyze that data, to find out like the five top keywords are why people are not buying.

00:10:46.566 --> 00:10:47.375
Cause then we can fix it.

00:10:48.096 --> 00:10:58.235
So it's also, it's a combination of this conversational process, but then understanding that like meeting the customer where they're at and then taken them over the line.

00:10:58.745 --> 00:11:10.206
I think the webinar example is great because it's well known in marketing that when people commit to something, especially if it's free, It's not really much of a commitment, right?

00:11:10.206 --> 00:11:11.495
They put it on their calendar.

00:11:11.525 --> 00:11:14.135
If they have time, if they're not doing anything else, maybe they'll show up.

00:11:14.166 --> 00:11:16.206
Maybe they won't, but it's not much of a commitment.

00:11:16.566 --> 00:11:26.015
That's why a lot of event producers charge a fee, even though it's being subsidized by sponsors or, vendors or whatnot, they still charge you because it's a commitment.

00:11:26.046 --> 00:11:28.235
That means people are going to get on a plane and they're going to show up.

00:11:28.745 --> 00:11:42.576
So talk a little bit about the methodology that you use around webinars, which makes the difference, which helps it go from just being one of those things that's on somebody's calendar that may or may not be important to them, to something that they feel drawn to.

00:11:43.566 --> 00:11:43.836
Yeah.

00:11:43.836 --> 00:11:47.035
So, you just, you mentioned on a very, very key point.

00:11:47.096 --> 00:11:49.946
We were always looking at is micro-commitments.

00:11:50.785 --> 00:11:56.395
I, so from the start to the end, like how many micro commitments does it take to get someone to buy?

00:11:56.785 --> 00:12:02.275
I, and that might be a question of, you know, how many people does it take to change a light bulb?

00:12:02.635 --> 00:12:04.676
however, what we are, what we like to say.

00:12:04.975 --> 00:12:08.635
And I learned this from Jason Fladlien is.

00:12:09.655 --> 00:12:11.066
Eight to eight on average.

00:12:11.365 --> 00:12:14.605
To be aiming for 150 micro commitments on our webinar.

00:12:15.326 --> 00:12:15.535
Wow.

00:12:15.535 --> 00:12:16.765
That seems like a lot.

00:12:17.275 --> 00:12:18.716
Yeah, it seems like a lot.

00:12:18.865 --> 00:12:19.316
Right.

00:12:19.916 --> 00:12:29.846
But it doesn't mean is because what people look at when it comes to a micro-commitment, sometimes you think in too much in your head of what that commitment is.

00:12:30.145 --> 00:12:35.005
And that's not always someone getting them to say directly, yes, I want this.

00:12:35.245 --> 00:12:35.546
Right.

00:12:35.546 --> 00:12:37.076
That's the commitment that you want.

00:12:37.495 --> 00:12:40.586
But the micro-commitment some more of the the nods, right.

00:12:40.615 --> 00:12:41.635
That, those kind of things.

00:12:41.635 --> 00:12:46.225
So for example, if you're on a webinar at the end of a sentence, so you're just saying the word, right?

00:12:46.375 --> 00:12:48.385
Like, as I've just said, write to you twice.

00:12:48.566 --> 00:12:49.765
No, not in backers and fall.

00:12:49.796 --> 00:12:50.296
It's not Yeah.

00:12:50.326 --> 00:12:50.596
Yeah.

00:12:50.686 --> 00:12:51.225
Makes sense.

00:12:51.225 --> 00:12:51.916
Makes sense.

00:12:52.426 --> 00:12:54.796
Aye and asking those questions all the time.

00:12:54.826 --> 00:12:55.395
This go in.

00:12:55.905 --> 00:12:57.105
So, is that making sense to you?

00:12:57.166 --> 00:12:57.375
Right.

00:12:57.405 --> 00:12:59.535
Can you see now how that would work for you?

00:13:00.495 --> 00:13:06.135
And then what we do, then we look at like, how can we build that in, across the whole conversational process?

00:13:06.135 --> 00:13:10.125
So by the time they get to the webinar, they're already been pre-framed for the sale.

00:13:10.306 --> 00:13:13.155
They're already taken a certain amount of, micro-commitments say.

00:13:13.155 --> 00:13:22.426
For example, one of the things we'll do, if it's a live webinar, one hour before it starts, we use a confirmed event reminder to say,"Hey, just to let you know, webinar's starting in an hour.

00:13:22.765 --> 00:13:29.365
What I want you to do is just let me know what your number one burning question is because we're going to do a Q and A at the end of the webinar." Right?

00:13:29.395 --> 00:13:36.405
And because you're doing that just before the webinar starts, then if they're going to commit to you at that point to go, I'm going to give you my question.

00:13:36.586 --> 00:13:37.216
What do they want?

00:13:37.275 --> 00:13:38.145
They want the outcome.

00:13:38.836 --> 00:13:39.765
So they're going to wait.

00:13:39.826 --> 00:13:40.605
They're going to go, right.

00:13:40.605 --> 00:13:44.446
I'm going to be on that now because I need to be on there to find out what the answer was to my question.

00:13:44.655 --> 00:13:47.686
And what that also does is it gives use great market research for free.

00:13:48.645 --> 00:13:48.885
Right.

00:13:48.916 --> 00:13:50.865
So we know what people's number one problem is.

00:13:51.316 --> 00:13:57.436
And then we can use that in our marketing messaging, use a word in that they are using, and then adjust the headlines and everything accordingly.

00:13:58.336 --> 00:14:03.309
So let's stick with this webinar example, because I want to understand more about what this process looks like.

00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:10.629
So you have some sort of an offer that maybe you've made through email, or maybe it's something on your website that says there's an offer.

00:14:11.139 --> 00:14:20.769
Are you involving chatbots, follow up emails, SMS as part of a complete flow in this process.

00:14:20.769 --> 00:14:22.299
So it's not just one thing.

00:14:22.419 --> 00:14:26.446
It's multiple things to get that attendee to show up.

00:14:27.046 --> 00:14:27.765
Hundred percent.

00:14:27.916 --> 00:14:28.515
Hundred percent.

00:14:28.515 --> 00:14:31.725
Yeah, we, we use, we use all the things I mentioned at the start.

00:14:31.905 --> 00:14:33.255
Like we use all of those.

00:14:33.535 --> 00:14:41.416
and then, you know, for each client it's a little bit different, you know, when we take on a new client, sometimes we'll go, okay, well, we're going to get into register three messenger.

00:14:41.926 --> 00:14:43.485
Sometimes that's the most effective way.

00:14:43.485 --> 00:14:47.686
Sometimes the most effective way is to get them to register on our landing page.

00:14:47.926 --> 00:14:51.405
And then on the thank you page, let's say it's a live webinar on the thank you page.

00:14:51.405 --> 00:14:53.355
We'll go, Hey, go and download the free workbook.

00:14:53.655 --> 00:14:55.725
But the only way they can get that is going into messenger.

00:14:56.145 --> 00:14:58.216
Now, at that point, we're looking at.

00:14:59.145 --> 00:15:01.576
So I always say removal, friction.

00:15:02.145 --> 00:15:03.466
And then add it back in.

00:15:04.216 --> 00:15:15.755
So, I know a lot of people, this is why you can't sometimes see why things are bright break-in because there's too many friction points of going out while it could be that it could be, that could be there.

00:15:16.176 --> 00:15:19.686
But if you remove as much friction as possible, so let's say you just go right.

00:15:19.716 --> 00:15:20.826
Landing page, email.

00:15:21.365 --> 00:15:22.895
No name, no phone number?

00:15:22.956 --> 00:15:23.525
No nothing.

00:15:24.216 --> 00:15:24.485
Right.

00:15:24.485 --> 00:15:25.115
You do that.

00:15:25.385 --> 00:15:28.926
And then the next stage you go, well, what if we asked them for a phone number?

00:15:29.466 --> 00:15:30.186
On the landing page.

00:15:30.245 --> 00:15:31.655
How does that affect conversion rates?

00:15:31.686 --> 00:15:33.216
If we change nothing, I was just changed that.

00:15:33.816 --> 00:15:36.395
And then you go, well, what if on the thank you page?

00:15:36.456 --> 00:15:39.155
Well, what if we ask for their email?

00:15:39.666 --> 00:15:48.216
On the landing page, but then on the thank you page, when we bring them into messenger, then we asked for the phone number when they've already made a commitment on the front to register for the webinar.

00:15:48.816 --> 00:15:52.145
Are they more likely or less likely to give the phone number at that point?

00:15:52.385 --> 00:15:58.655
So it's always looking at every point, the process, like where is the best point to ask for that thing?

00:15:58.655 --> 00:16:00.395
And we're just starting to do some new things as well.

00:16:00.395 --> 00:16:01.355
We're launching this week.

00:16:01.716 --> 00:16:04.296
Where we've got this, like, also optimization.

00:16:05.225 --> 00:16:05.796
Fly away.

00:16:05.855 --> 00:16:07.655
It's got 16 different outcomes, right?

00:16:07.655 --> 00:16:14.676
So all the, all the most popular questions that someone could ask, so like, what's included, is this a scam?

00:16:15.096 --> 00:16:17.046
You know, the, the usual questions.

00:16:17.046 --> 00:16:17.375
So.

00:16:18.066 --> 00:16:27.605
then the conversational flow will actually pop up with a call to action at the point where it's been optimized over the repeated data coming into that at the front.

00:16:27.995 --> 00:16:29.676
To be able to go, okay.

00:16:29.676 --> 00:16:36.576
One when someone's asked that question and that question and that question at that point, they usually ready to buy and then giving them the call to action.

00:16:36.846 --> 00:16:43.025
So it's about understanding where that person is in the buyer journey to take them to the next part of it.

00:16:44.326 --> 00:16:48.784
What you're talking about, the different points to collect information and reducing friction.

00:16:49.115 --> 00:16:54.595
Now, when you're using a tool like Facebook messenger, there are some really advantages to that tool, right?

00:16:54.595 --> 00:17:01.705
Because there are things like a lead ad where you can pull information automatically without having to ask it.

00:17:01.914 --> 00:17:02.575
Is that right?

00:17:03.504 --> 00:17:03.745
Yeah.

00:17:03.774 --> 00:17:03.985
Yeah.

00:17:04.015 --> 00:17:10.585
So yeah, if you run in a, like, for example, like a lead magnet or a registration, It's also ultimately going to pull the.

00:17:11.394 --> 00:17:13.194
Email from their Facebook account.

00:17:13.224 --> 00:17:18.355
And it's going to be able to call the phone number as well, so that there's a reduced amount of friction to get someone's phone number.

00:17:18.595 --> 00:17:23.345
We find on average, we collects around six 67% of, phone numbers.

00:17:23.835 --> 00:17:26.625
which is what we also give them the option to skip.

00:17:27.555 --> 00:17:27.855
Right.

00:17:27.855 --> 00:17:31.065
So just because they don't want to give the phone number, it doesn't mean you've lost that lead.

00:17:31.904 --> 00:17:34.305
Because this is what, the difference between a landing page.

00:17:34.305 --> 00:17:34.515
Right?

00:17:34.545 --> 00:17:38.325
So if you're going to a landing page and you say, enter your email, enter your phone number.

00:17:38.414 --> 00:17:40.365
Now you might say the phone number is optional.

00:17:41.055 --> 00:17:43.095
However, because it's there.

00:17:43.515 --> 00:17:48.795
On that box and it's all as one, even if it's optional, they go while it's probably not optional.

00:17:49.065 --> 00:17:50.055
So I don't know what they want.

00:17:50.055 --> 00:17:55.664
That first I'm going to leave, but if you've already collected someone's email and step one, and then on step two, gone.

00:17:56.174 --> 00:17:58.694
Hey, by the way, we've also got this VIP list.

00:17:58.694 --> 00:18:01.964
If you want to, if you want to put your phone number and you can do.

00:18:02.605 --> 00:18:05.545
So we you've got that flexibility.

00:18:06.075 --> 00:18:07.815
and here's a great thing as well.

00:18:08.025 --> 00:18:09.974
You can split test that flow in messenger.

00:18:10.845 --> 00:18:11.085
Right.

00:18:11.115 --> 00:18:13.005
So you could go while I'm going to run them.

00:18:13.305 --> 00:18:16.244
And this is what we've done a lot, which is like geeky stuff.

00:18:16.815 --> 00:18:18.615
but on the front little guy, right.

00:18:18.664 --> 00:18:24.904
let's collect the email and then we'll do a split test and we'll, we'll put like a couple of different words.

00:18:25.535 --> 00:18:28.204
In that split test of the way that we asked for the phone number.

00:18:28.234 --> 00:18:29.974
So it might be like, what's your best phone number?

00:18:30.424 --> 00:18:32.734
And then the other one might be, please confirm your number.

00:18:33.575 --> 00:18:33.785
Right.

00:18:33.815 --> 00:18:36.964
And I can tell you most of the time, please confirm your number outweighs either one.

00:18:37.265 --> 00:18:38.164
Like by a lot.

00:18:38.644 --> 00:18:39.125
Interesting.

00:18:40.204 --> 00:18:47.045
Because a confirmation is a small, again, back to micro commitments or confirmation is a smaller commitment than, than a full ask.

00:18:47.587 --> 00:18:50.528
Now, how does artificial intelligence fit into this?

00:18:50.528 --> 00:18:55.147
Because what you've described so far is a fairly heavily scripted flow, right?

00:18:55.147 --> 00:18:59.528
Where you're coming up with the questions and the responses and the flow can take several different paths.

00:18:59.827 --> 00:19:02.738
So how does AI come into this?

00:19:02.738 --> 00:19:04.867
Or is it not that present yet?

00:19:05.948 --> 00:19:06.188
Yeah.

00:19:06.188 --> 00:19:06.577
So, so.

00:19:06.877 --> 00:19:12.928
There's elements of it, you know, you can, You can link with things like dialogue flow, which does, like.

00:19:13.768 --> 00:19:25.887
It will track the words that are actually being said, and then it'll do the response kind of like, it will basically analyze, let's say you put a full sentence, for example, let's say you were going to go and order a coffee, right?

00:19:26.518 --> 00:19:26.607
Okay.

00:19:26.657 --> 00:19:30.557
I knew in a coffee shop and it says, ordering messenger, I can you go in there?

00:19:30.557 --> 00:19:33.107
And he owed, say hi, I won a.

00:19:34.367 --> 00:19:35.057
Decaf.

00:19:35.387 --> 00:19:40.518
A large latte with soy milk and two sugars, right.

00:19:40.577 --> 00:19:46.097
It won't, it won't recognize a high, it will recognize the, the individual parameters.

00:19:46.097 --> 00:19:51.498
So it would just be like latte and now be like coffee make, and then it would be like soya milk type.

00:19:51.978 --> 00:19:52.218
Right.

00:19:52.218 --> 00:19:55.067
So, or recognize those parameters and then pull that out.

00:19:55.708 --> 00:20:01.228
to be able to put that in the right place where you need it now with webinars, we don't use that that much.

00:20:01.548 --> 00:20:04.067
but we use are so many other different tools.

00:20:04.488 --> 00:20:08.387
we're just starting to experiment with different things around the AI side of things as well.

00:20:08.417 --> 00:20:11.718
So, It's about looking at the right UK use case.

00:20:11.748 --> 00:20:21.738
And I think in a business to consumer standpoint, especially from a customer service perspective, like that can be extremely powerful and really reduce the workload of their followup.

00:20:23.328 --> 00:20:28.338
Marketing is the engine that drives demand, but too often it takes a back seat to other priorities.

00:20:28.699 --> 00:20:32.419
Awareness, fails to materialize demand drops in sales falter.

00:20:32.838 --> 00:20:37.249
Don't wait until it's too late to build your brand awareness and demand generation programs.

00:20:37.653 --> 00:20:49.233
If your company is struggling with their marketing strategy, we want to help let's schedule a call to talk about your unique situation and what options might be available to get your marketing program back on track.

00:20:49.503 --> 00:21:00.784
To learn more text C M O two(407) 374-3670 that's C M ho two four zero seven.

00:21:01.173 --> 00:21:03.963
Three seven four three six seven zero.

00:21:04.173 --> 00:21:06.124
And we'll reply with further details.

00:21:06.273 --> 00:21:07.534
We hope to hear from you soon.

00:21:09.270 --> 00:21:12.990
You mentioned tools and there are a lot of tools that are out there right now.

00:21:13.681 --> 00:21:16.691
For example, I run my CRM on HubSpot.

00:21:16.750 --> 00:21:19.570
They have a chat bot that you can embed on a Wordpress site.

00:21:19.861 --> 00:21:23.701
you've got Facebook messenger, obviously, which you can put on your Facebook pages.

00:21:23.701 --> 00:21:28.020
You've got companies that are growing like crazy, like inner calm out there that have tools.

00:21:28.621 --> 00:21:34.351
When you look at the marketplace and see all these tools, do you see real advantages to one versus the other?

00:21:34.590 --> 00:21:40.080
Or is this really going to be a multiprong strategy where you're going to have to use one tool here on your website?

00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:41.401
One tool on Facebook?

00:21:41.441 --> 00:21:42.790
How do you see the marketplace there?

00:21:43.661 --> 00:21:51.010
I'd say my favorite tool is up here Zapier or Zapier is a, you know, I don't think anyone's still knows the weight is what it is.

00:21:51.017 --> 00:21:51.406
But yeah.

00:21:51.406 --> 00:21:54.616
by using that you can link anything to anything.

00:21:54.701 --> 00:22:00.070
so, you know, we will try and cut that friction down by having to use less channels if we, if we can.

00:22:00.520 --> 00:22:05.621
But the end of the day, sometimes I believe that.

00:22:05.951 --> 00:22:06.730
If you've got.

00:22:07.691 --> 00:22:10.181
A tool that is a specialist in something.

00:22:10.961 --> 00:22:16.391
I would rather that, because you find these companies that start off diet absolutely fantastic.

00:22:16.391 --> 00:22:17.050
At one thing.

00:22:17.921 --> 00:22:21.461
And then they go, well, we could do this and we could do that.

00:22:21.461 --> 00:22:22.391
And that, and that and that.

00:22:22.391 --> 00:22:26.230
And before, you know, it, the original product isn't as good as it used to be.

00:22:26.530 --> 00:22:31.540
And they've saturated what they've done so much that they can't really explain what they do anymore.

00:22:32.020 --> 00:22:37.030
So I would much rather have a company that goes, we are fantastic at this.

00:22:37.090 --> 00:22:37.840
That's all we do.

00:22:38.381 --> 00:22:41.951
Over and over again, we will link that to anything and we'll make it amazing.

00:22:42.340 --> 00:22:44.290
And I'll go, okay, well, I'm going to use that over that.

00:22:44.290 --> 00:22:50.080
And I'm going to use this over here, this over here and link those together to make the best possible customer experience.

00:22:50.901 --> 00:22:53.691
I completely agree because otherwise it becomes tool overload.

00:22:53.721 --> 00:22:56.510
You need too much expertise on your team to manage all these tools.

00:22:56.510 --> 00:22:58.191
Each one works a little bit differently.

00:22:58.461 --> 00:23:00.050
It can become overwhelming.

00:23:00.590 --> 00:23:16.537
So in the webinar example that you talked about before, I'd love to hear a case study about the performance of one of your clients that you work with before you got involved and after you got involved, because I think this is so key marketing is expensive.

00:23:16.537 --> 00:23:17.826
It takes a lot of time.

00:23:17.977 --> 00:23:25.477
And if you're spending all this money to do outreach through something like a webinar, but you're not getting an audience or you're getting a small audience.

00:23:26.527 --> 00:23:38.307
A smaller investment in growing that audience could pay exponentially rewards back to you because now you've got this many more people for roughly about the same effort.

00:23:39.626 --> 00:23:40.106
Yes.

00:23:40.227 --> 00:23:43.707
So I'm going back to that with, with webinars.

00:23:44.007 --> 00:23:47.096
One of the lowest hanging fruit really is.

00:23:48.507 --> 00:23:53.096
People don't have a high show rates right

00:23:53.217 --> 00:23:55.317
It's usually about a 50% drop-off right.

00:23:56.156 --> 00:23:56.846
If not more.

00:23:57.096 --> 00:24:02.047
you know, so we we've had people that started with 17% show rate.

00:24:02.297 --> 00:24:05.086
and we first webinar we did together.

00:24:05.116 --> 00:24:06.586
They had a record launch in.

00:24:07.037 --> 00:24:08.567
Did 44% show rate.

00:24:09.856 --> 00:24:10.126
Right.

00:24:10.126 --> 00:24:16.696
So you can have the best party in the world, but if no one shows up, it's not really going to be the best party in the world, you know, you're just going to be in.

00:24:17.237 --> 00:24:20.237
Sausage rolls in the corner on your own, and it's not going to be great.

00:24:20.616 --> 00:24:26.346
you know, we've had, we've had other clients that you, I and people ask us, why does this work at scale?

00:24:27.366 --> 00:24:27.636
Right.

00:24:27.636 --> 00:24:32.487
So, like I said, That were mentioned previously that went from 31,000 to 243.

00:24:33.116 --> 00:24:36.326
Now obviously to do 243,000, you're spending quite a lot of nuts.

00:24:36.477 --> 00:24:39.176
You reach in a lot of people I can get expect.

00:24:39.777 --> 00:24:42.207
The show rates to drop quite a lot.

00:24:42.477 --> 00:24:45.537
So we actually increase them from.

00:24:46.467 --> 00:24:46.977
I think it's from.

00:24:47.426 --> 00:24:53.037
14% to 24%, which doesn't sound that high.

00:24:53.336 --> 00:24:58.106
However, in their market that's like crazy high because these.

00:24:58.467 --> 00:25:01.886
That our audience are the kind of people like you say, who got free.

00:25:01.946 --> 00:25:02.457
Cool.

00:25:02.997 --> 00:25:03.926
I'll sign up for that.

00:25:04.106 --> 00:25:04.497
Oh yeah.

00:25:04.497 --> 00:25:05.126
I forgot buy it now.

00:25:06.057 --> 00:25:12.906
So, by taking that an increase in our webinars show rate by 86% eight, it meant that they could be profitable at scale.

00:25:14.136 --> 00:25:17.047
Does the process really help too with webinar replays.

00:25:17.076 --> 00:25:21.936
So for those people who don't make it the day of the actual live event for the replay,

00:25:23.047 --> 00:25:27.997
How much, I'm going to ask you a question, Eric, how much do you think it costs?

00:25:28.507 --> 00:25:29.616
To get someone.

00:25:30.817 --> 00:25:31.477
To collect.

00:25:32.237 --> 00:25:34.876
back to replay to respond to the message.

00:25:36.376 --> 00:25:37.366
I honestly have no idea.

00:25:37.381 --> 00:25:42.290
Between 5 and 7 cents You've always got to be looking as well at the lifetime value of a customer.

00:25:43.401 --> 00:25:43.701
Right.

00:25:43.701 --> 00:25:54.601
So sometimes it may cost more to get someone on the front end into messenger and into SMS and to be able to send them text and voicemail drops and things like that.

00:25:55.201 --> 00:26:05.451
However, then over time, that can be worth a lot more to you because they're on this messenger list because they're on this text list while the open rates on texts are 94% still.

00:26:06.221 --> 00:26:06.431
Right.

00:26:06.431 --> 00:26:08.891
This is not a new text is not a new platform, SMS.

00:26:09.431 --> 00:26:11.111
It's been around a long time.

00:26:11.330 --> 00:26:14.391
And they're only just starting to reinvent it with a rich text editor.

00:26:14.421 --> 00:26:23.211
So you're going to have a very similar style of Facebook messenger process in your normal SMS inbox within the next four or five years.

00:26:23.770 --> 00:26:28.931
So there's still massive opportunity there that people are not taken advantage of.

00:26:29.441 --> 00:26:35.770
So like, you've got a couple of choices you can either go, okay, well, I'm just going to do email and I'm not knocking email.

00:26:35.800 --> 00:26:37.570
Email, it is beneficial.

00:26:38.020 --> 00:26:38.651
Definitely.

00:26:39.340 --> 00:26:49.000
However, if you just do email alone, you're only gonna get maybe 15 20% of the people to actually even open the message, let alone click! So my 15% open.

00:26:49.990 --> 00:26:51.431
2- 3% click.

00:26:51.520 --> 00:26:52.000
You're like.

00:26:52.780 --> 00:26:53.711
Well, this is a bit depressing.

00:26:53.740 --> 00:26:56.621
So you might have a list of a thousand people, 150 open it.

00:26:56.951 --> 00:26:58.901
Then you might get like 10 clicks.

00:26:59.201 --> 00:27:03.520
Great! That same list, on messenger or SMS.

00:27:04.090 --> 00:27:05.951
You might have a thousand people on there.

00:27:06.310 --> 00:27:10.510
You get 800 open it, and 50% click.

00:27:11.830 --> 00:27:14.601
So then instead of 10 clicks, you've got that 500.

00:27:14.810 --> 00:27:16.401
I mean, I know which one I'd rather have!

00:27:17.060 --> 00:27:17.931
Absolutely.

00:27:18.921 --> 00:27:23.723
Well, you know, we're recording this and the time of COVID, video is huge.

00:27:23.723 --> 00:27:27.263
Webinars have been huge, but there's also a little bit of fatigue setting in right.

00:27:27.263 --> 00:27:29.933
People have been watching a lot of online content.

00:27:30.304 --> 00:27:33.453
from your perspective in the clients that you work with, are you starting to see that?

00:27:33.453 --> 00:27:42.094
Did you see sort of a massive spike as people were staying at home and watching more content and now fatigue has set in and it's dropping or is it holding pretty steady?

00:27:42.933 --> 00:27:43.144
Yeah.

00:27:43.144 --> 00:27:49.834
So the, the thing is the world is changing faster than it's probably ever changed in history.

00:27:51.394 --> 00:28:00.273
So the great thing about that is, yeah, like you say that there will be some people who have come online in the last, well, I say come online, but like really got into.

00:28:00.513 --> 00:28:04.953
Maybe starting their own business online or something like that six months ago, right?

00:28:05.013 --> 00:28:05.223
Yeah.

00:28:05.223 --> 00:28:09.423
And that there may be a little bit of fatigue starting to set in right now, but here's the thing.

00:28:09.453 --> 00:28:12.544
There's new people coming in every day, every single day.

00:28:12.844 --> 00:28:15.334
Because right now, people are going.

00:28:16.354 --> 00:28:18.814
And at any age, it's, it's terrible.

00:28:19.054 --> 00:28:20.554
What's happened here in the market.

00:28:20.554 --> 00:28:23.523
People have lost jobs, lost family members lost lives.

00:28:24.963 --> 00:28:32.134
And on top of that, there, there is also massive opportunity and, and it, it depends what you want to see.

00:28:32.854 --> 00:28:33.094
Right.

00:28:33.094 --> 00:28:42.054
I remember the first week that COVID like, came across the pond and I started watching reading these news articles every day.

00:28:42.804 --> 00:28:45.294
And then by the end of the week, I felt like crap.

00:28:45.923 --> 00:28:48.233
And my mentor said to me, he said, just get that out your head.

00:28:48.653 --> 00:28:48.773
Right.

00:28:49.344 --> 00:28:51.923
You said, how is that benefiting you in any way?

00:28:52.794 --> 00:28:58.223
So he was like, this could be the most magical time in history, right?

00:28:58.374 --> 00:29:05.854
If you take the opportunities and like, I'm not saying that in a way to like, disregard anything that's going on with people's lives, you know?

00:29:06.574 --> 00:29:09.993
Everyone copes with things in different ways and there's different situations.

00:29:09.993 --> 00:29:13.743
However, there's so much magical opportunity right now.

00:29:14.213 --> 00:29:14.963
It's unbelievable.

00:29:14.993 --> 00:29:16.344
Specially in the online world.

00:29:17.273 --> 00:29:19.163
So it's great for business.

00:29:19.884 --> 00:29:22.403
And it really gives people an opportunity to stand out, right?

00:29:22.403 --> 00:29:29.574
If you're just doing the same old thing over and over, you shouldn't be surprised if your results are declining, but there is an opportunity to innovate and be different.

00:29:29.574 --> 00:29:34.493
And do something new and that kind of brings up a topic.

00:29:34.493 --> 00:29:50.034
It's a little tangential, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts on gamification because you know, there's been a lot of news here in the States about this investing platform called Robinhood, where they're in trying to get young investors to invest in the stock market.

00:29:50.243 --> 00:29:53.993
But there's a big game of vacation element to the application.

00:29:54.233 --> 00:29:59.753
You know, lots of sounds like a slot machine and things like that when you make trades and confetti and all that kind of stuff.

00:30:00.173 --> 00:30:01.913
But there's some downside to it as well.

00:30:01.913 --> 00:30:05.903
Cause it's pulling in people who really don't know what they're doing, but they're playing it like a game.

00:30:06.054 --> 00:30:11.153
What do you think of game of vacation and marketing and how it can be used effectively?

00:30:11.784 --> 00:30:12.534
I love it.

00:30:12.773 --> 00:30:16.344
so I actually got the opportunity to interview a Yukon ciao.

00:30:16.554 --> 00:30:22.973
Last year as wiring Yukon ciao if you don't, if anyone's listening and don't know who he is, get his book actionable.

00:30:22.973 --> 00:30:29.213
Gamification is the Bible of gamification It's at 12 hour audio book.

00:30:29.814 --> 00:30:30.834
so I, yeah.

00:30:30.866 --> 00:30:35.067
Awesome getting through, but so he talks about eight core principles of gamification.

00:30:35.576 --> 00:30:39.957
One of the things, one of them that stands out to me, I, and what he says a lot as well.

00:30:39.957 --> 00:30:42.057
It's a lot more than just points, budgets and stickers.

00:30:42.267 --> 00:30:42.626
Hmm.

00:30:43.287 --> 00:30:43.646
Right.

00:30:44.189 --> 00:30:48.477
One of the things about gamification, Epic meaning and Colin is massive.

00:30:49.106 --> 00:30:49.376
Right.

00:30:49.376 --> 00:30:52.346
So when you feel part of something bigger than you.

00:30:53.396 --> 00:30:56.936
Then, so you look for example, Pokemon go, right?

00:30:56.967 --> 00:30:58.136
That, that went ma like.

00:30:58.676 --> 00:30:59.936
Everyone's forgotten about it now.

00:31:00.416 --> 00:31:02.846
I bought, it went massive for a very short space of time.

00:31:02.967 --> 00:31:03.896
Why did it do that?

00:31:03.896 --> 00:31:08.047
Because people felt, both an Epic mean and, and calling around.

00:31:08.196 --> 00:31:08.616
Yeah.

00:31:08.646 --> 00:31:10.957
I need to get that to be part of this club.

00:31:11.646 --> 00:31:11.977
Right.

00:31:12.067 --> 00:31:13.176
It was an exclusive club.

00:31:13.207 --> 00:31:21.376
If you weren't in the club, you won't call and then they've also got the social currency where then they've got something to talk about with other people.

00:31:21.527 --> 00:31:23.866
You look at the same with sports, right?

00:31:24.856 --> 00:31:27.017
what's really interesting with sports.

00:31:27.287 --> 00:31:28.636
I love this phrase him, right?

00:31:29.557 --> 00:31:32.426
If someone, that team, if that team wins.

00:31:33.057 --> 00:31:34.017
They say we won.

00:31:35.517 --> 00:31:35.906
Right.

00:31:36.297 --> 00:31:38.037
If the team loses, what did they say?

00:31:38.126 --> 00:31:38.817
They lost.

00:31:39.686 --> 00:31:40.406
So true.

00:31:41.037 --> 00:31:50.846
So, so that kind of creating that culture of gamification as well around a sport can also be turned into marketing.

00:31:51.156 --> 00:31:53.646
so for example, we've done things in the past where.

00:31:54.426 --> 00:31:56.737
We created this challenge process.

00:31:57.076 --> 00:32:00.406
and each day people would gather at a certain moment.

00:32:00.527 --> 00:32:05.866
Amount of points for each thing that they clicked through in terms of, okay, so today's task is X.

00:32:06.076 --> 00:32:06.767
You're going to do this.

00:32:06.767 --> 00:32:07.037
Great.

00:32:07.067 --> 00:32:07.997
You won this amount of points.

00:32:08.146 --> 00:32:10.727
You do this, you get this Mark points and so on and so forth.

00:32:10.997 --> 00:32:17.207
Once they'd done that, we said, what happens is at the end of the five days of the challenge, you're going to go into a points leaderboard.

00:32:17.686 --> 00:32:21.436
And that whoever's at the top is going to get 50 entries to win this massive.

00:32:21.886 --> 00:32:24.467
it was like a thousand dollar cash prize and the load of all the bonuses.

00:32:24.737 --> 00:32:32.297
So we actually then leverage that, but here was the thing can be a lot of people will go while whoever's got the most points, win.

00:32:33.106 --> 00:32:37.576
I didn't want to do that because one of the other things that you want to create with gamification is hope.

00:32:39.257 --> 00:32:39.557
Right.

00:32:39.646 --> 00:32:46.517
So even if you only add one entry and let's say you were to hundreds in the database, you still have the chance

00:32:46.666 --> 00:32:47.146
Yeah.

00:32:48.166 --> 00:32:50.207
So we are, you always got to create hope.

00:32:50.686 --> 00:32:52.186
And intrigue with.

00:32:52.936 --> 00:32:53.926
With gamification.

00:32:53.957 --> 00:32:58.126
So people don't feel like if they're not at the top, there's no point.

00:32:58.817 --> 00:32:59.086
Right.

00:32:59.086 --> 00:33:02.747
And you look at that way, video games all the time, you don't start on level 10.

00:33:03.376 --> 00:33:07.636
They don't, they don't make it so hard in that first level that you're just like, Oh, I'll give up.

00:33:08.297 --> 00:33:08.656
Right.

00:33:08.686 --> 00:33:15.586
I, apart from the occasional game that will do that on purpose to make it that's their reputation, that this is the hardest game out there.

00:33:15.797 --> 00:33:19.156
For example, like, I don't know if you, ever had it in America, the Impossible Quiz.

00:33:20.017 --> 00:33:21.277
it doesn't ring a bell with me.

00:33:21.876 --> 00:33:25.446
Yeah, we used to have this, when we're at school, they used to be this thing called the Impossible Quiz.

00:33:25.477 --> 00:33:27.237
It was just like this jar, flash game.

00:33:27.747 --> 00:33:28.076
Right.

00:33:28.106 --> 00:33:33.086
And the question is what's the most stupid thing ever made no sense whatsoever, but you just go through it.

00:33:33.116 --> 00:33:38.186
As soon as you've got a question wrong, you have to go right back to the star, most frustrating thing ever, but you kept doing it.

00:33:39.086 --> 00:33:41.067
You kept doing it because you want to get that a bit further.

00:33:41.096 --> 00:33:42.116
Like I know that question now.

00:33:42.116 --> 00:33:42.807
I know that question.

00:33:42.807 --> 00:33:44.037
I just keep going and going and going.

00:33:44.277 --> 00:33:48.446
So sometimes making something hard actually makes more people want to do it.

00:33:48.477 --> 00:33:52.737
Sometimes making things easier and then gradually getting harder or make more people get involved with it.

00:33:52.946 --> 00:33:54.297
And that's what we think about as well.

00:33:54.297 --> 00:33:55.767
When we think about conversational.

00:33:56.146 --> 00:33:59.537
flows is like, w again, micro-commitments right.

00:33:59.567 --> 00:34:02.807
Start off with a small one and then build up to a bigger commitment.

00:34:03.386 --> 00:34:15.827
if you just take it all together, what it really is marketers understanding how people think, how people by the actions that people take, as opposed to marketers, trying to get everybody to think how they think.

00:34:16.306 --> 00:34:18.677
And it's really turning the tables a little bit.

00:34:18.677 --> 00:34:34.697
And that's, what's so fascinating is because there's a lot of research behind this and it's just so interesting to see the products that are coming out and the way that people are able to optimize what they're doing, because they've started to really understand people's attention spans.

00:34:34.786 --> 00:34:36.106
What makes people happy?

00:34:36.166 --> 00:34:37.666
What gets people engaged?

00:34:37.907 --> 00:34:38.867
It's fascinating stuff.

00:34:38.896 --> 00:34:40.907
And you know, this has been a great conversation.

00:34:41.206 --> 00:34:45.617
Paul, how do people find out more about what you're doing at, at amplify?

00:34:46.697 --> 00:34:46.967
Yeah.

00:34:46.967 --> 00:34:52.507
So if you go to a www.amplifyccom.com.

00:34:53.086 --> 00:34:53.146
Yeah.

00:34:53.237 --> 00:35:03.447
And, they will be some great resources on there as well, depending on when you go, Oh, you know, we're always updating that stopped, but right now there is, I think 27 webinar, hacks on there.

00:35:03.806 --> 00:35:08.297
It allowed there to be that, or, 27 ways to get people to say how we ask.

00:35:08.956 --> 00:35:10.097
On your webinars.

00:35:10.126 --> 00:35:12.257
So all those things we're talking about, micro commitments.

00:35:12.737 --> 00:35:16.396
Yeah, there's 27 different ways that I've scripted out for you.

00:35:16.396 --> 00:35:19.277
So you can really easily get people to say yes on your webinar.

00:35:19.666 --> 00:35:19.726
Yeah.

00:35:20.416 --> 00:35:26.356
And you can get that on that and actually go through a C Com experience and see how it feels and how it, how it looks.

00:35:26.927 --> 00:35:27.317
That's great.

00:35:27.347 --> 00:35:30.376
I'll definitely have that linked up in the show notes so that people can find it.

00:35:30.556 --> 00:35:31.097
And what about you?

00:35:31.097 --> 00:35:32.507
Are you on the social media channels?

00:35:32.507 --> 00:35:33.706
How can people track you down?

00:35:34.306 --> 00:35:35.967
Yeah, I'm on Facebook a lot, to.

00:35:36.746 --> 00:35:46.367
To be honest, cause I hadn't been on Messenger and stuff, so yeah, just, search for Paul lays on there or search Amplify C-Com and either connects with me personally.

00:35:46.836 --> 00:35:48.067
ideally as well.

00:35:48.277 --> 00:35:48.936
Hey, here's the thing.

00:35:48.967 --> 00:35:50.976
If you want to get someone's attention on social media.

00:35:51.277 --> 00:35:52.586
Send them a video message.

00:35:53.766 --> 00:35:54.097
Right.

00:35:54.336 --> 00:35:57.547
a lot of people were scared to send video messages.

00:35:57.547 --> 00:35:58.266
I ma.

00:35:58.356 --> 00:36:02.407
My first outreach is usually a video message followed up with a, let me know.

00:36:03.157 --> 00:36:06.637
Because then I create a curiosity lead for the person to go when I've got to watch the video now.

00:36:06.666 --> 00:36:07.836
Cause I don't know what he wants to know.

00:36:08.916 --> 00:36:09.907
It's so true.

00:36:09.936 --> 00:36:15.277
we did that a lot with the sales where we embedded video messages in our sales outreach, and it made such a difference.

00:36:15.336 --> 00:36:16.836
People will click on those videos.

00:36:17.407 --> 00:36:17.496
It's

00:36:18.097 --> 00:36:18.936
Yeah, it's personal.

00:36:18.967 --> 00:36:19.416
That's right.

00:36:19.416 --> 00:36:20.706
And it shows who you are.

00:36:20.786 --> 00:36:21.327
It's great.

00:36:21.896 --> 00:36:23.637
Paul, this has been a fascinating conversation.

00:36:23.666 --> 00:36:28.304
I really enjoyed our discussion today and some really interesting things happening.

00:36:28.304 --> 00:36:30.614
So I encourage our audience to go check you out.

00:36:31.034 --> 00:36:32.474
Thank you so much for your time today.

00:36:33.074 --> 00:36:33.943
Thanks very much, Eric.

00:36:34.003 --> 00:36:35.114
Absolute pleasure.

00:36:37.418 --> 00:36:40.807
that wraps up another episode of The Virtual CMO podcast.

00:36:40.867 --> 00:36:52.387
As a reminder, if you'd like to learn more about Virtual CMO, strategic marketing consulting services, or anything else discussed here today, please visit us at fiveechelon.com.

00:36:52.717 --> 00:36:53.768
There's a link in the show notes.

00:36:53.768 --> 00:37:00.637
If you'd like to send us comments, feedback, guest inquiries, and your five-star reviews on Apple Podcasts are always appreciated.

00:37:00.893 --> 00:37:02.182
If you'd like to reach me.

00:37:02.483 --> 00:37:03.902
I'm EDickmann.

00:37:03.922 --> 00:37:08.753
That's E D I C K M A N N on Twitter.

00:37:09.052 --> 00:37:11.512
If you'd like to connect on LinkedIn, please let me know.

00:37:11.512 --> 00:37:14.242
You heard about me through The Virtual CMO podcast.

00:37:14.512 --> 00:37:20.713
I look forward to talking with you again next week and sharing some new marketing insights on The Virtual CMO.