March 8, 2021

Dominate the Competition with a Compelling 3-to-5 Word Marketing Message with Greg Rosner

Show Notes
Transcript

In part 5 of our Masterclass Series on "Building a Strategic Marketing Plan for Your Business," host Eric Dickmann interviews Greg Rosner. Greg is the Founder of PitchKitchen.com, a sales enablement agency based in New York whose mission focuses on fixing bad sales messages, virtual presentations, and company home pages that make themselves the hero of the story instead of their customer.

PitchKitchen has helped hundreds of SMB organizations upgrade their story which has allowed their salespeople to double their close rate. Greg has taught communication skills at The New School in New York City and has developed the 12 Conversations and is the host of #salestherapy show on Linkedin.

For additional resources on this episode and from our other episodes in this Masterclass Series, visit https://fiveechelon.com/masterclass

For more information about Eric Dickmann and The Five Echelon Group, visit https://fiveechelon.com/

For more information about Greg Rosner, visit https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregrosner or at PitchKitchen at https://www.pitchkitchen.com

Episode #56

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WEBVTT

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Hey, Greg.

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Welcome.

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You liked that music?

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Huh?

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digging that.

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Yeah, you got to have a little pump up music to get started here.

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Hey, welcome to the virtual CMO podcast in our masterclass series around building a strategic marketing plan.

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I'm really glad that you could join us today.

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Sure.

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Cool.

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Yeah.

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So, uh, as we were talking just a little bit about in the, in the pre-call, uh, this is part five of our series.

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So we started out talking about what it means to build a strategic marketing plan.

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And then what is your target market and ideal customer profile really important to have those things identified.

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And then in part.

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Three, we talked a little bit about product market fit and competitive differentiation, and then moved on to really creating your brand story.

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What does your brand represent?

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What does it mean?

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And I'm really excited today that now we're going to be able to explode that out a little bit and talk about really dominating the competition with a compelling three to five word marketing message.

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And you are the guy that I sought out to talk about this, because I know that this is a focus of your company pitch kitchen.

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And I was wondering if you could just start out the conversation today.

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By giving folks a little bit of a background on what you do and what his pitch kitchen.

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Yeah.

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Sure.

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So I'm Greg.

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And I started pitch kitchen.

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About four years ago, having a really, a whole career in selling a commodity services, like language translation services to companies like Apple and Texas instruments and IBM.

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And language translation.

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That means website translation.

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And that means using all sorts of artificial intelligence and software.

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And so I was selling all that stuff.

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And, uh, I realized that the marketing, that the marketing material that I got from marketing.

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Uh, was really bad.

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The sales decks that we had to use the, uh, even the homepage.

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That we refer to our customers too.

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I was really embarrassed to send our customers to them.

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Because there was just so self-serving, there were so focused on how great we were and how perfect our offering is.

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And that what's inspired me to just build my own sales enablement.

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Uh, sales slides and that, uh, I use that for myself and for my team, my sales team, and, uh, we were having good success and I decided that it was a real opportunity to do that on the side, start a side hustle, helping other sales teams.

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Develop their sales messaging, and slides to have better conversations.

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So, uh, I quit my job and did that full time because, um, it was really lucrative.

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Uh, because it's really filling a big need, this gap between sales and marketing that, uh, I found, so pitch kitchen is focused on, uh, fixing bad sales, presentations, and boring homepages that sadly make themselves the hero of the story.

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Hmm.

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I think that's great.

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You know, I worked at Oracle for 18 years and I'm very familiar with a lot of ugly sales presentation, sales decks, and it's not really anybody's fault.

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You know, people are trying to do the right thing.

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But there is this idea, like you said, if people being a little self serving, they want to talk so much about what their product or service does that they forget that it's really about engagement with your target buyer.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, it's engaging with your target buyer.

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It's also engaging with the ideas that your target buyer needs to understand, or the ideas that they understand, but they need you to shine more clarity around those ideas.

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And so those ideas, for example, HubSpot HubSpot came out in 2012 with this concept of what they called inbound marketing.

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And that's an idea that they had slides on.

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They had website content on, and it was an idea that they believed that that was the future of.

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Uh, of, of marketing.

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Uh, and they also appeal to customers who believed that in that marketing was the future as well, and something they should spend time on.

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So there was selling to people that we're talking about, an idea, they were promoting an idea that's gonna.

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That their ideal customers believe in already.

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And I think that's great marketing.

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That's a great marketing where you are not talking about yourself.

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You're not promoting your slogans or not about how awesome you are.

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But they're how awesome a particular idea is, and that idea or that, that path, or that.

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A method that our approach is the approach that leads to winning.

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And that's what I think, sadly, too many marketing teams, miss, they just focus like, Hey, I'm a marketer, I'm a CMO.

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Uh, I'm tired to do marketing.

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I'm going to market the hell out of this company.

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I'm just going to Mark it all day long and I'm going to shop for the mountain tops, how great our product does.

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But the reality is, and you know, this, I know this, we all know this.

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Nobody really cares about you or your product.

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People care about themselves and their businesses.

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And if you're coming to them, you know, with your fancy pants solution, talking about how great you are, uh, sadly that doesn't work anymore.

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No, that's so true.

00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:18.810
And I think you also mentioned something earlier that I think is really important.

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You know, we talk a lot about this concept of a buyer's journey and really, you know, there is this handoff between marketing and sales.

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That sometime is not a very.

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Uh, kind of contiguous process, right?

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Marketing is putting out all this fancy, uh, uh, messaging to the marketplace and then sales comes in with a completely different approach to how they do it.

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And so there's a disconnect between what customers may be I've seen on the website.

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Do you deal with that a lot?

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When you talk to your clients?

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Yeah, and this is the principle that I rest on.

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So, uh, Seth Godin just said yesterday, That the purpose of marketing.

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Is.

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Is change.

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The purpose of marketing is, is to, is to promote.

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The change.

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Uh, And I think that's a great definition.

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Uh, but the purpose of sales then is to help facilitate that change.

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So there's a perfect alignment in marketing sales.

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If your marketing is like, let's go back to the HubSpot analogy.

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If marketing is.

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To promote this idea of inbound marketing is the new better way to go about your marketing.

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Then the purpose of the sales team at HubSpot is to help people adopt and facilitate that change to, to start doing inbound marketing instead of outbound.

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Um, so, uh, that, I think there's the alignment.

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Yeah.

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I think that that makes a lot of sense.

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And it's so important because you know, that buyer's journey really is from before your customer to when you're in the buying process, to when you are a customer, you know, there are opportunities throughout that continuum and it's important that that messaging is consistent through there.

00:07:06.689 --> 00:07:10.589
About the buyer's journey, too many people talk about the damn buyer's journey as it.

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The end of the goal is that they're a customer.

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They buy a sign on the dotted line and press hard twice.

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So it goes through the carbon copies.

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Just kidding.

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That's a reference to that.

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So that's, to me, that's not the buyer's journey.

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The buyer's journey is their before state, before they met you.

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Uh, their current way of doing things that is, you know, maybe it's untenable, maybe it's okay.

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Maybe they're good to, to continue doing the things that they're doing today.

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Hopefully, if you're selling something to them, that's going to help them be better.

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Then the future, the journey that they're headed to is, is not to work with you, but to achieve that, that state, that future state, where they're, they're achieving their goal, where they're successful, where there have a better reputation or they're getting more customers or whatever their future state is.

00:08:01.500 --> 00:08:05.160
I think that that's the filter that I look at, what a buyer's journey.

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I think too many people think about buyer's journey to be, Oh, we put the finish line.

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Is when they are a customer and that's not the finish line because a year later they're going to move because so many SAS businesses today rely on, you know, their renewals and they're not going to get renewals.

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If they think their buyer's journey stops at the finish line of.

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Uh, sales.

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I think that's a great way to look at it.

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That's a very, uh, people can look at it very transactionally, right?

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And it's not, it's really a journey gets what, what are you enabling that customer to do?

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Because they've purchased your products or service and how can you help them on that, that full journey.

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I'd love to sort of dig into some of these points a little bit more with you.

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So let's start with the first one, which is really around simplifying your sales message, whether that's something on your website or in your presentations.

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So what do you think are the elements sort of have a good, strong sales message?

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Yeah.

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Um, So.

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Uh, the sales message really needs to be.

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When I say singular sales message is the platform for.

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Uh, are you still there by the way?

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Yeah, I'm still here.

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Yeah.

00:09:15.929 --> 00:09:22.200
The sales, when I say the sales message, what is not so much your elevator pitch, which is like a sentence.

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But what is the.

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The essential story that you're all about.

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And, uh, I'm writing a book now called the 12 essential conversations.

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Uh, in sales therapy.

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Uh, the 12 essential conversations that are needed to help a customer along that buyer's journey.

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Um, and, and again, with the goalpost being, not the sale, but the, where they are successful.

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And I think the fundamental sale.

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The, the attributes of a great sales message is number one.

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It, uh, it's not, self-serving, it's not a slogan that promotes are great.

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You are, it's a slogan that points to the future state that your customers want to be in.

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So for example, like.

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Uh, Donald Miller.

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Well, let's talk about Donald Miller's story brand at the moment.

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Uh, Donald Trump.

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So, uh, yesterday was inauguration day.

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Uh, yes, Donald Trump was president for four years.

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It's a fact, uh, it's another fact that his slogan that had five words make America great.

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Again.

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Uh, spoke to his people.

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It was started with a verb like Simon Sinek, start with why.

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Like, um, uh, Nike's just do it.

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And the three of those slogans speak to their tribe, speak to their people, speak to their constituents.

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About a future vision of themselves or a, like, what do you need to do so that you can be successful?

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And so I think those are really powerful things to have a three to five word hashtag or a story.

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That's not about you, but it's about the place that you are helping your people get to.

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And I say you're.

00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:11.009
Let me just stop there.

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Uh, I'm sorry if I'm rambling, but.

00:11:12.960 --> 00:11:14.039
no, you're not rambling at all.

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I think that makes a lot of sense.

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It's very action-oriented but you know, I think we've talked about on this show before that there aren't really that many truly unique.

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Products in the marketplace, most things or an iteration of something that's already there.

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And so I think that there's a temptation for a lot of businesses to want to say more because they feel like they need to say more to differentiate their product from their competitors.

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How would you respond to that?

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Or just this notion that we've just got to say more because that's really where the differentiator comes in.

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Uh, when you used to say, you're saying that people need to say more.

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I'm sorry.

00:11:54.149 --> 00:12:09.750
Yeah, when they are, whether it's their sales message or the verbiage on their website that they feel they need to explain in, in very robust terms, sort of why they're different, because it's, it might not be obvious as to why company A's all that different from company B.

00:12:10.620 --> 00:12:11.070
Right.

00:12:11.820 --> 00:12:12.929
Well, it's interesting.

00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:15.539
Well, so many things I'm thinking about.

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I had a poll on LinkedIn last week and the pole was, uh, what's your biggest competition right now.

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And there were three choices.

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One was your direct competition of companies selling similar products and services.

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To customers who are distracted doing other things and three.

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Uh, I have no competition.

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And believe it or not, nobody voted for one nobody.

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So it's like, I think it's an L it's too.

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Self-centric to think that you need to be spending time talking about how unique your thing is.

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I think the focus should be on.

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On on the problem that your customers are facing, talking about that problem.

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And the w and if you can describe your customer's problem.

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Better than they can even describe it themselves.

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They will automatically think that you have the absolute best solution for them because you know about that better than anybody.

00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:23.820
So that's a great differentiator between you and your competition, but to the degree, to which you've described that their problem.

00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:24.990
What do you think about that?

00:13:24.990 --> 00:13:25.200
No.

00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:37.289
I think that makes so much sense because, you know, that's kind of marketing one Oh one, I think in that you want to focus things in terms of what is a pain point and how your solution sort of addresses that pain point.

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But the temptation is to go in and say, this, these are all the things that make our product better.

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I I'm always surprised, you know, if you watch a television ad, you know, they'll say, Hey, we've got this great new.

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product and it's got more of.

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Vitamin Q in it.

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Okay, well, so what.

00:13:57.929 --> 00:14:00.419
So, what does vitamin Q actually do for me?

00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:04.049
Um, but there's just this temptation and say, we've got more of this.

00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.450
We've got better this and well, do I need more of this?

00:14:06.450 --> 00:14:07.590
Do I need this to be better?

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What are you actually solving by adding these things to your product or service?

00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.309
And I think there's just this temptation to always say what's in it.

00:14:14.850 --> 00:14:15.090
It's.

00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:16.889
Yeah, it's a temptation, I think too.

00:14:17.190 --> 00:14:18.659
Also talk about happy talk.

00:14:18.690 --> 00:14:21.779
I see so much happy talk on websites, homepages.

00:14:22.350 --> 00:14:25.200
You know, be this, do that be awesome.

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You can do this with this.

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But this.

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The problem with that is there's no skin in the game.

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People like, look at that Like, you know what Matt who cares, but I know from selling multimillion dollar deals, Uh, that took nine months and like 14 people to get to make happen that you don't sell by talking about happy things about how great things can be and how perfect your solution is a seamless, integrated fit to blah, blah, blah, that nobody cares about.

00:14:55.470 --> 00:15:09.509
Uh, you only get to a sale, uh, when, when you really get your customers to realize that they too realize, and to acknowledge that if they did nothing.

00:15:10.049 --> 00:15:12.509
Between now and a year from now.

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That and you ask them the question.

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Would you be okay with that?

00:15:17.789 --> 00:15:25.019
If not it with these five things that we talked about that you're dealing with, would you be okay with that with not making a change?

00:15:25.889 --> 00:15:28.320
And if they say like, no, we will not be okay.

00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:32.070
Well, that basically is the starting point for a sales discussion.

00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:37.259
Um, and in that, when you're talking about what you're not okay with.

00:15:37.889 --> 00:15:41.519
That is the, the juice that gets people to make a purchase.

00:15:41.549 --> 00:15:46.889
It's not the juice isn't talking about the goals like, Oh, you know, lose weight.

00:15:47.129 --> 00:15:48.059
Feel great.

00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.029
You know, that doesn't motivate anybody, you know?

00:15:51.600 --> 00:15:53.220
Uh, Luke great in a suit.

00:15:54.269 --> 00:15:56.250
That may not help people lose weight.

00:15:57.149 --> 00:15:58.620
What does help people lose weight?

00:15:58.649 --> 00:15:59.070
You know?

00:15:59.429 --> 00:16:09.389
The, the cold reality of how they feel, how they physically feel, uh, and talking about how does that make you feel to, you know, Huff and puff?

00:16:09.389 --> 00:16:14.250
When you walk up a flight of stairs or to not be able to wear your best suit, what does that make you feel?

00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:16.139
Or it's an emotional connection, right?

00:16:16.769 --> 00:16:17.429
What's that.

00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:18.600
emotional connection.

00:16:19.110 --> 00:16:19.559
Yeah.

00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:21.120
How does it make you feel?

00:16:22.110 --> 00:16:27.809
Would that be okay if nothing happened, would you be good if in five years or two years went by and no change.

00:16:28.529 --> 00:16:31.740
And a lot of people would be like, yeah, I guess, you know what, I'd be okay with that.

00:16:32.220 --> 00:16:33.809
That they're, they're not a customer.

00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:42.000
You know, um, I think one of the interesting things too, is we sort of talk about, you know, sort of designing your messaging.

00:16:42.539 --> 00:16:45.600
Is that not every business has long sales cycles.

00:16:45.629 --> 00:16:50.789
Not everybody has to have a PowerPoint deck that they present the customers for many businesses.

00:16:50.789 --> 00:16:54.059
The selling actually takes place on a web or through an ad.

00:16:54.629 --> 00:17:00.120
And one of the things that I thought was very interesting when I reviewed the, uh, the pitch kitchen website.

00:17:00.929 --> 00:17:04.980
Is that your website is loaded with proof points.

00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.670
You have, this is what a message looked like before.

00:17:08.730 --> 00:17:22.650
This is what a message looked like after over and over again, you very clearly sort of articulate the before and the after and anybody without even reading the text can see that there has been streamlined messaging put in place here.

00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:25.109
And then you also have testimonials and things like that.

00:17:25.319 --> 00:17:32.130
Why do you think proof points are so valuable to companies in terms of building out their messaging story?

00:17:32.609 --> 00:17:35.549
Well, that's one of the 12 conversations that need to happen.

00:17:36.089 --> 00:17:40.619
And I'm not going to go through all them quickly, but you need to have a before and after conversation.

00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:43.440
Because we talked about a buyer's journey.

00:17:43.619 --> 00:17:46.650
Well, the before is where they're pretty much at now.

00:17:47.069 --> 00:17:55.890
And why would they even take one step on your damn journey unless you were clear with them about what would be on the other, you know, when they crossed the river?

00:17:56.339 --> 00:18:00.210
Uh, and the river cost money and the river is dangerous and the rivers change.

00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:03.390
And there's so many people that invested time and money and dollars.

00:18:03.660 --> 00:18:05.339
To be where they are today.

00:18:05.579 --> 00:18:10.859
So there's so much at risk for a business to make a change, to start any change of journey.

00:18:11.309 --> 00:18:15.690
That, uh, unless you have that single conversation of one of the 12th.

00:18:16.170 --> 00:18:20.910
Uh, to talk about the outcomes and the results that they can expect.

00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:26.190
Um, Then that's an essential conversation of the 12th.

00:18:26.549 --> 00:18:28.529
You know, there's another conversation, which is great.

00:18:28.529 --> 00:18:30.569
I want that, but how are we going to get there?

00:18:30.839 --> 00:18:41.490
You know, we have, you know, 19 other systems and we got 4,000 people and we're invested in all these different, you know, applications and whatever the complexity is of the deal.

00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:42.809
They're confused.

00:18:42.809 --> 00:18:49.289
They're like we want those outcomes, but there's, you know, to be honest with you, this is not going to happen quickly.

00:18:49.289 --> 00:18:51.089
This is going to be painful and expensive.

00:18:51.299 --> 00:18:55.859
And then you show me this PowerPoint slide, where there's 19 steps that we have to take to get there.

00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.920
Excuse me, but we're not gonna, we're just gonna keep doing what we're doing.

00:18:59.160 --> 00:18:59.609
Mm.

00:18:59.789 --> 00:19:06.119
So any sales person that thinks that their biggest competitor isn't the status quo is, is, is living a dream.

00:19:06.690 --> 00:19:07.559
Oh, that's so true.

00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:18.059
Well, you know, one of the things that I also was struck by, you know, just recently, we kind of celebrated the anniversary of the introduction of the iPhone.

00:19:18.450 --> 00:19:24.299
Uh, Steve jobs made an iconic presentation that day when he introduced the iPhone.

00:19:24.509 --> 00:19:27.960
And I think, you know, he was a master at what he did.

00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:28.200
Right.

00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:37.710
And I think there are a lot of people who would love to sort of emulate that style and really put forth the presentation that truly addresses those pains.

00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:39.119
But let's face it.

00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:40.920
Not everybody is a Steve jobs.

00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:45.210
Not everybody has a team of graphic designers to put together a beautiful PowerPoint.

00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:47.880
Not everybody is going to spend days in rehearsal.

00:19:48.029 --> 00:19:49.289
To get everything right.

00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:56.279
And so there is also that danger right of over simplifying it, and then not being able to communicate effectively.

00:19:57.089 --> 00:19:57.599
Yeah.

00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:00.960
So that's why I think it comes down to the 12 conversations.

00:20:01.410 --> 00:20:18.900
Instead of the focusing on the slides or the homepage, because if you can really nail what these conversations need to be, what the story's about, what the before and after story really needs to be, what the plan needs to be, what the, uh, problem discussions need to look like, what the goal discussions need to.

00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:20.099
I'm just throwing out some of the.

00:20:20.309 --> 00:20:26.490
The 12th, once you really nail those, then you're like, well, I know what my slides need to be.

00:20:26.490 --> 00:20:28.230
I know what my white boards need to be.

00:20:28.619 --> 00:20:31.500
Uh, I know what, what the before and after story is.

00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:38.099
And then it's, it's easier to then design your slides so that you could pull out the jackets of.

00:20:38.430 --> 00:20:44.880
Spades to say, okay, now I need to have the before and after conversation with Bob, Susan and Jamil.

00:20:45.390 --> 00:20:51.390
Um, or now I need to have the problem discussion with four other people because they they're aware of the after.

00:20:51.390 --> 00:20:51.690
So.

00:20:52.589 --> 00:21:00.630
You can assemble your conversations and design your conversations based on where, you know, your people need to be, and you need to be visual.

00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:08.730
This is a post COVID world, and you know, you need to use your screen as a stage like Steve jobs would use.

00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:16.680
His screen is a stage and interact with your content, interact with these conversations and interact with your audience.

00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:21.299
At the same time, you've got to do both, and there's a great opportunity to do that.

00:21:21.299 --> 00:21:27.359
Well, Uh, but it's also a great opportunity to do a terribly and not do it.

00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:43.619
Well, and it's interesting because you talk about these 12 conversations we were talking before about the buyer's journey and the fact that it really is a journey that takes them sort of before they're our customer all the way through, and then to ultimately the outcomes that they're trying to achieve by purchasing your product or service.

00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:58.619
And it sounds like the way you frame these conversations is that they come in at very specific points in that continuum to be able to say, you know, this is what's needed now is we engage with the customer to sort of help them over that next hurdle or to give them the vision of where they're going to be.

00:21:59.009 --> 00:21:59.250
Right.

00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:02.640
So the sale of the buyer's journey is at the 50 yard line.

00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:03.390
In my view.

00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:10.890
That's where the sale is and the journey it's not at the, you know, The one or the, the goalpost.

00:22:11.309 --> 00:22:13.200
And I think, I think that's kind of sums it up.

00:22:13.829 --> 00:22:18.059
So that, uh, You know, when people are creating slides.

00:22:19.230 --> 00:22:23.700
You know, you know, Sales people always like to consider themselves to be the trusted advisor.

00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:26.160
So that's the, that's the role here?

00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:28.559
And marketing needs to design.

00:22:28.950 --> 00:22:32.759
Conversations for their salespeople so that they can be that trusted advisor.

00:22:32.970 --> 00:22:33.390
Hmm.

00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:40.559
Not the, the, uh, shill on the mountaintop that they paid money to live on the corner.

00:22:40.650 --> 00:22:48.000
You know, the guy that they pay us to come to the carwash, you know, or whenever with the sign, that's not the job of a sales person.

00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:48.420
Yeah.

00:22:48.900 --> 00:22:52.890
But a lot of marketing people just give to salespeople, the sign, you know, here.

00:22:53.130 --> 00:23:00.660
Use this deck that with these colors and these fonts and Oh, and just like, you know how in fact, why don't you just send that to your customer?

00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:02.940
You don't need, we don't even need you as a salesperson.

00:23:03.059 --> 00:23:04.589
Just send them the deck.

00:23:04.890 --> 00:23:06.000
And it's beautiful deck.

00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:06.660
It's gorgeous.

00:23:06.660 --> 00:23:08.069
Like why wouldn't they buy?

00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:08.369
Right.

00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:11.490
So of course we know that that doesn't happen.

00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:14.910
You know, in fact, why do you need to send them a deck, send them to your website?

00:23:14.970 --> 00:23:17.430
Oh, you don't want to send them to your website because you're ashamed.

00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:19.589
Because the website is also terrible.

00:23:19.859 --> 00:23:25.710
So it's like, there is a tension between sales and marketing because sales are really the ones.

00:23:25.710 --> 00:23:30.390
I mean, I, my heart bleeds for salespeople because I don't think.

00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:33.029
Most salespeople are given what they need.

00:23:33.450 --> 00:23:36.240
Two armed to have the right conversations.

00:23:36.630 --> 00:23:38.880
They're kind of, you know, making it up as they go along.

00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:43.740
And I think marketing needs to cause that change, that sales helps facilitate.

00:23:44.490 --> 00:23:45.569
I think that's very true.

00:23:45.569 --> 00:23:56.789
And I think, especially if you have a business that the product or something is not necessarily that different or unique, not that configured for every customer, it's much easier for marketing to provide more support to sales.

00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:02.009
Uh, because there's a little bit of consistency in what goes out, becomes a little bit more challenging, right?

00:24:02.009 --> 00:24:16.920
Unless you have a larger team, if you're doing a lot of custom things for, for every customer, but I want to sort of drill into this point that you mentioned sort of on, on visual tools and engagement, because really that's the last aspect of this as engaging with your customers.

00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:23.099
You know, we're still, uh, here in early 2021, where at a time of Kobe, a lot of people are working remotely.

00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:28.140
That probably is going to change a little bit, but working has definitely changed.

00:24:28.470 --> 00:24:36.089
And so it was always challenging when you get in front of a room of people and you went through a presentation deck and an hour long.

00:24:36.150 --> 00:24:37.680
You know, a set of speakers.

00:24:38.009 --> 00:24:40.470
Now it's even more challenging because you're remote.

00:24:40.500 --> 00:24:43.769
You've got people on their laptops with distractions in their homes.

00:24:43.769 --> 00:24:46.890
They can mute you and you don't really necessarily know what they're doing.

00:24:47.220 --> 00:24:57.299
So, how do you look at that in today's age and say, we need to step it up, or we need to do things differently to get our messages across to our customers.

00:24:57.299 --> 00:25:00.180
You can't necessarily just do things the same way you were before.

00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:02.309
Yeah.

00:25:02.309 --> 00:25:04.890
So getting your message across to customers.

00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:07.829
You know what I feel like on zoom calls.

00:25:08.099 --> 00:25:15.869
I I'm, I'm a big fan of making zoom calls, just really unforgettable and awesome and super engaging.

00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:17.880
And I do my best to do that.

00:25:18.569 --> 00:25:25.619
And I think you can do that by just being, uh, having fun and being creative, asking people like, shit, let me see your hands.

00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:26.250
Show your hands.

00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:27.420
I'm asking you some questions.

00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:29.250
I'm going to do a little drawing on the board.

00:25:29.250 --> 00:25:33.180
I want you to tell me, you know, what box do you think I should put the check Mark in?

00:25:33.569 --> 00:25:41.400
You know, you're doing things that you would do in a room with people, but you really, you know, pushing yourself to use the limited technology we have.

00:25:41.789 --> 00:25:46.109
There's an app that I use called Dot app at N M H M M.

00:25:46.470 --> 00:25:47.970
And it allows the green screen.

00:25:47.970 --> 00:25:53.369
If you will, behind me, it's silhouettes me to be my presentation or to be that my screen.

00:25:53.940 --> 00:26:05.460
And so it's an alternative camera and it really allows the presenter to interact, like are there in front of a stage or in front of a screen on the zoom call and then.

00:26:06.089 --> 00:26:13.170
Uh, people are more like they're looking at you and they can that you can see the screen and you're pointing to the screen and it's really pretty cool.

00:26:13.289 --> 00:26:15.779
It was spawned up in April, just during coven.

00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:23.490
It's absolutely an essential tool, I think right now, for people that want to make their zoom presentations much more engaging.

00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:31.740
I also think, you know, the simple tricks of running the poles to showing the poll up on the screen, especially with the larger groups, you know, I've got two questions for you.

00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:45.809
One, do you think what's the most important issue this year with your, with your CRM or whatever it is you're selling or with your business or a questions like, um, Uh, the don't have, uh, open-ended like of these three problems.

00:26:45.809 --> 00:26:47.940
What's the biggest problem you think for your business.

00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:53.670
And that kind of creates a conversation with the three people you need to be selling to on the call.

00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:56.369
And so you can do that, you know, with poles, you can do that.

00:26:56.369 --> 00:26:57.930
Just informally show of hands.

00:26:58.890 --> 00:27:02.309
But, uh, when people have the camera turned off, I don't know.

00:27:02.369 --> 00:27:04.589
Uh, it's harder to do that.

00:27:04.950 --> 00:27:06.599
Uh, you don't even know if they're there.

00:27:07.049 --> 00:27:12.750
Um, But, and it's, I don't know if it's polite to ask people to turn their cameras on.

00:27:13.740 --> 00:27:15.089
Um, but.

00:27:15.779 --> 00:27:16.559
I don't know.

00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:17.190
I

00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:17.759
a difference.

00:27:17.789 --> 00:27:19.440
You want to see that you want to see their eyeballs.

00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:19.619
Right.

00:27:19.619 --> 00:27:21.720
You know, you want to know that they're, they're paying attention.

00:27:23.009 --> 00:27:27.779
Yeah, but it's hard to demand that, but I think you can, you can ask kindly.

00:27:28.410 --> 00:27:31.109
Um, because you're saying you want to be asking questions.

00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:33.750
You want to say since there's four of us, want to ask for a show of hands.

00:27:33.750 --> 00:27:36.539
So we don't all have to chime in just the interest of time.

00:27:36.690 --> 00:27:43.619
So keep your cameras on because I'll be asking you to, you know, with a show of hands, that's a sort of a, a backend way to get people that turn the cameras on.

00:27:43.650 --> 00:27:44.220
I don't know.

00:27:45.269 --> 00:27:51.660
What's been interesting, I think because, you know, one of the changes that I think has really happened, uh, through COVID.

00:27:51.990 --> 00:27:59.970
Is that as people were forced to work from home, They finally were forced to turn these little cameras on that everybody's had on their computers for years.

00:27:59.970 --> 00:28:00.269
Right.

00:28:00.450 --> 00:28:06.569
But it was, you know, well, while people would share images on Facebook or Instagram, those are all very choreographed.

00:28:06.569 --> 00:28:06.809
Right.

00:28:06.809 --> 00:28:09.089
You know, you can pick a dozen takes to get that picture.

00:28:09.089 --> 00:28:16.200
You just like, but when you turn on your webcam, you know, people can see the cat in the background and the dirty laundry and the kids running through the house.

00:28:16.410 --> 00:28:23.849
And it took a lot of, I think, trust for people to finally say I'm going to open my world up to, to use so that you can see.

00:28:24.029 --> 00:28:25.289
And I think we've sort of gotten.

00:28:25.289 --> 00:28:27.450
past that now, and people are more comfortable.

00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:32.940
And I think that almost has to be celebrated in a way that when crazy things are happening, just acknowledge it.

00:28:32.940 --> 00:28:34.230
It shouldn't be a point of embarrassment.

00:28:34.230 --> 00:28:37.380
It should be, it should add some interest and excitement to the call.

00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:39.420
Yeah, it was an app too.

00:28:39.450 --> 00:28:42.869
That's just emerged in, in December called clubhouse.

00:28:43.200 --> 00:28:43.650

Dominate the Competition with a Compelling 3-to-5 Word Marketing Message with Greg Rosner

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