Dec. 3, 2020
How Talent Management Can Help Accelerate Growth with Jennifer Thornton
In this episode, host Eric Dickmann interviews Jennifer Thornton. Jennifer has developed her expertise in Talent Strategy & Leadership Professional Development over her exciting 20+ year career as an HR Professional.
The rapid growth of her consulting firm, 304 Coaching, has been largely due to Jennifer’s unconventional approach to building innovative workforce development solutions for companies who are facing breakthrough growth and accelerated hiring patterns.
She is a sought-after business strategist, specializing in start-ups and large value-based organizations. She assists her clients in building talent strategies that complement their business strategies to ensure exponential growth.
Eric Dickmann can be found on Twitter @EDickmann and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/edickmann and my website https://ericdickmann.com
Jennifer Thornton can be found online at https://304coaching.com/ on Facebook @304Coaching, and LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferrthornton/
Episode Summary: The episode summary can be found at https://fiveechelon.com/talent-management-help-accelerate-growth-s3e13/
If you'd like to contact us with feedback or guest inquiries, please visit:
https://fiveechelon.com/podcast
For more information about Virtual CMO strategic marketing consulting services, visit The Five Echelon Group at https://fiveechelon.com
Episode #44
Send us your questions or comments
Buzzsprout - Let's get your podcast launched!Start for FREE
Marketing Automation with HubSpot
Try HubSpot’s all-in-one marketing software to simplify campaign management and drive new leads.
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
WEBVTT
00:00:01.947 --> 00:00:08.310
The Virtual CMO podcast is sponsored by the strategic marketing consulting services of The Five Echelon Group.
00:00:08.577 --> 00:00:22.940
If you’d like to work directly with The Five Echelon Group and receive personal coaching and support to optimize your business, enhance your marketing effectiveness and grow your revenue, visit Five Echelon.com to learn more and schedule a free consultation.
00:00:24.702 --> 00:00:26.952
Welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast.
00:00:27.193 --> 00:00:28.928
I'm your host, Eric Dickmann.
00:00:29.263 --> 00:00:41.622
In this podcast, we have conversations with marketing professionals who share the strategies, tactics, and mindset you can use to improve the effectiveness of your marketing activities and grow your business.
00:00:41.673 --> 00:00:45.063
Today, I'm excited to welcome Jennifer Thornton to the program.
00:00:45.302 --> 00:00:52.862
Jen has developed her expertise and talent strategy and leadership professional development over her exciting 20 plus year career.
00:00:52.862 --> 00:01:08.072
As an HR professional she's led international teams across greater China, Mexico, the UK, and the us to expand into new markets, manage franchise retailers and develop key strategic partners, all will exceeding business objectives and financial results.
00:01:08.403 --> 00:01:11.373
The rapid growth of her consulting firm three Oh four.
00:01:11.433 --> 00:01:23.102
Coaching has been largely due to Jennifer's unconventional approach to building innovative workforce development solutions for companies who are facing breakthrough growth and accelerated hiring patterns.
00:01:23.783 --> 00:01:26.033
Jen welcome to the virtual CMO podcast.
00:01:26.033 --> 00:01:27.623
I'm so glad you could join us today.
00:01:28.022 --> 00:01:28.412
Thank you.
00:01:28.412 --> 00:01:29.733
I'm excited to be here with you.
00:01:30.483 --> 00:01:34.593
I wanted to start out today a little bit because we both have interesting company names.
00:01:34.862 --> 00:01:36.843
So I'm The Five Echelon Group of people.
00:01:36.843 --> 00:01:37.503
Ask me all the time.
00:01:37.503 --> 00:01:38.522
Where did you come up with that one?
00:01:38.793 --> 00:01:41.643
And you've got 304 consulting, correct.
00:01:41.643 --> 00:01:42.722
Where did that come from?
00:01:43.408 --> 00:01:43.707
Yeah.
00:01:43.947 --> 00:01:48.058
So three or four coaching actually came from a lucky number.
00:01:48.058 --> 00:01:50.518
He know the day I decided to go out on my own.
00:01:50.518 --> 00:01:52.168
I was like, what am I going to call this?
00:01:52.168 --> 00:01:55.768
And how am I going to help people understand, what I do?
00:01:55.798 --> 00:01:58.227
And nothing sounded right.
00:01:58.257 --> 00:02:02.608
And three Oh four is a mixture of dates that have always been important.
00:02:02.608 --> 00:02:05.697
So I've always looked at the number three or four is my lucky number.
00:02:05.697 --> 00:02:06.597
So I went with that.
00:02:07.097 --> 00:02:07.697
That's great.
00:02:07.697 --> 00:02:11.087
And doing something unusual like that really helps when it comes to finding a domain.
00:02:11.087 --> 00:02:11.448
Doesn't it?
00:02:11.848 --> 00:02:13.437
It did it definitely helped.
00:02:13.437 --> 00:02:18.027
And the great thing is it creates conversation just like this people ask, where did that come from?
00:02:18.027 --> 00:02:19.978
And so it's a wonderful conversation starter.
00:02:20.147 --> 00:02:20.538
That's right.
00:02:20.538 --> 00:02:22.307
You've got to have a story around your brand.
00:02:22.337 --> 00:02:23.328
I love that.
00:02:23.598 --> 00:02:26.298
So you have been in HR for a long time, right?
00:02:26.298 --> 00:02:28.068
Got some deep expertise there.
00:02:28.247 --> 00:02:35.117
And I just want to dive right into it because HR is one of these issues that I think is very confusing and troublesome for a lot of people.
00:02:35.358 --> 00:02:38.657
Why are so many companies bad at the hiring process?
00:02:39.057 --> 00:02:44.307
So when you think about HR and you think about the history with HR, it was the police of the company.
00:02:44.307 --> 00:02:49.497
And that is not what we want to look at as HR going into the 21st century and how we look at it.
00:02:49.918 --> 00:02:56.647
And so if you really look at HR as a talent strategy group, That is how you can drive your business.
00:02:56.647 --> 00:03:00.768
So when you look at why people are bad at hiring, there are several reasons.
00:03:00.768 --> 00:03:05.418
One, we don't take the time to really understand what we're hiring to.
00:03:05.687 --> 00:03:11.598
We don't take the time to do the work around what work needs to be accomplished and how do we do that?
00:03:11.907 --> 00:03:17.848
so we set ourselves up for failure from day one because we don't really know why we're hiring someone and what we want them to do.
00:03:18.177 --> 00:03:22.198
And then once that kind of goes through and we figure if we do figure out what we want to hire.
00:03:22.573 --> 00:03:25.173
We start to get really emotionally attached to candidates.
00:03:25.203 --> 00:03:29.943
And it's difficult to ask questions and get honest responses.
00:03:30.302 --> 00:03:32.133
Most people are not that self-aware.
00:03:32.353 --> 00:03:40.393
so when they give you an answer, often times, it's not the reality, it's their perception of how they perform or the stories they say in their head.
00:03:40.872 --> 00:03:43.423
And there's a lot of difficulties that go into hiring.
00:03:43.823 --> 00:03:52.622
So interesting that you say that because, I regularly get job offers that come into my email box and there was one that came through and it was for a very senior level executive.
00:03:52.622 --> 00:03:56.733
And one of the job requirements was, must be familiar with Microsoft word and Excel.
00:03:57.122 --> 00:04:05.733
And I thought, in a limited amount of space in a job posting, you're hiring an executive and that's what you want to put as one of the top things for them to know.
00:04:06.032 --> 00:04:06.122
Yeah.
00:04:06.152 --> 00:04:07.923
It just, it struck me as that.
00:04:08.133 --> 00:04:09.812
They just don't really know what they want.
00:04:10.212 --> 00:04:11.682
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
00:04:11.682 --> 00:04:13.772
And it's also, so I'm somewhat insulting.
00:04:13.772 --> 00:04:21.762
You're like if I'm a candidate for this high level position, and all you're worried about is if I can use, Microsoft Excel, then there's an issue.
00:04:21.762 --> 00:04:24.343
And there's some connection issues to this job.
00:04:24.612 --> 00:04:29.083
The other thing I really work with clients around job descriptions is they are pieces of marketing.
00:04:29.262 --> 00:04:34.692
When someone reads that job description, it starts to set a tone to the culture way of work.
00:04:34.968 --> 00:04:38.778
Expectations how we play together within the work environment.
00:04:39.257 --> 00:04:43.697
And so we can't look at the job description as a check box of things we might want you to do.
00:04:43.697 --> 00:04:47.028
We have to look at it as the building of a culture.
00:04:47.708 --> 00:04:56.968
I'm so glad that you said that because I firmly believe that I have seen so many job descriptions over time that you read through them and they're a pain to read through.
00:04:56.968 --> 00:04:58.288
They're boring to read through.
00:04:58.288 --> 00:05:04.377
They do nothing to make the position sound interesting or exciting, or the company, a vibrant place to work.
00:05:04.648 --> 00:05:10.598
And I think that too many HR departments look at it, as it's almost like an accounting document.
00:05:10.598 --> 00:05:12.937
it's full of ones and zeros and commas.
00:05:13.017 --> 00:05:14.937
it's not a marketing piece, but it should be.
00:05:15.338 --> 00:05:16.028
Absolutely.
00:05:16.028 --> 00:05:18.007
And I love that phrase that you use.
00:05:18.007 --> 00:05:21.327
It looks like an accounting, a doctor document, and you're correct their checklist.
00:05:21.608 --> 00:05:28.548
one of the things that I think is important to put in your job description is your values, your company, culture, and mission.
00:05:28.637 --> 00:05:33.497
Because at the end of the day, how we do the work is as important to what work we do.
00:05:33.858 --> 00:05:42.802
And so if you have things right, your job description, say your value is entrepreneurial spirits then in your job description, it should talk about that.
00:05:42.802 --> 00:05:52.733
it could say things around taking ownership of the business, having strong conversations with peers, when you see opportunity to drive business, that's a job description.
00:05:52.733 --> 00:05:54.112
That's what we actually do.
00:05:54.512 --> 00:05:59.762
And you brought up a culture, which I think is such an important thing for many companies nowadays.
00:06:00.293 --> 00:06:10.523
So there's this idea about hiring that may be, you should be hiring more for cultural fit rather than past experience or specific skills or expertise.
00:06:10.733 --> 00:06:16.372
How do you coach companies when it comes to hiring, is cultural fit more important, equally important?
00:06:16.372 --> 00:06:17.062
How do you look at it?
00:06:17.463 --> 00:06:18.963
I think a lot of it depends on the job.
00:06:19.072 --> 00:06:26.723
Culture's always going to be a key factor because job satisfaction and job purpose comes from the way in which we do the job.
00:06:26.752 --> 00:06:30.923
You could do the same job in three different companies in one and not the other.
00:06:30.923 --> 00:06:33.083
And it's because of how you do the job.
00:06:33.562 --> 00:06:39.052
There are jobs that are incredibly technical and there are a handful of experts in the world.
00:06:39.233 --> 00:06:46.103
And we do have to look at those a little differently, but for the majority of the jobs out There, we need to have a balance.
00:06:46.103 --> 00:06:48.733
We need to have a balance between culture.
00:06:49.062 --> 00:06:53.023
Then we also need to take into experience in way of work.
00:06:53.322 --> 00:06:57.612
And then we also need to take in natural job behavior traits.
00:06:57.882 --> 00:07:09.392
So as someone high, detailed, or low detail, naturally as someone highly assertive, are they highly creative in their decision making because all of that will play out and to the success of the job.
00:07:09.793 --> 00:07:14.702
So one of the things that I know you specialize in is this, OAD assessment.
00:07:14.702 --> 00:07:23.586
is that similar to like a disc assessment, which I think some people are familiar with, is it, three hours of sitting in front of a computer answering questions?
00:07:23.586 --> 00:07:26.005
What is it that look like to a job candidate?
00:07:26.206 --> 00:07:32.565
So the OAD, he is actually very quick, takes a candidate on average, less than 10 minutes to complete.
00:07:32.565 --> 00:07:36.016
And you're going to get a, just array of information.
00:07:36.286 --> 00:07:49.495
You're going to find out their natural work traits around how assertive they are creative, if they're methodical less patient, their adaptability and how they approach problem solving around creativity and emotional control.
00:07:49.826 --> 00:07:55.815
And we hire people all the time for their experience, but they fail because their traits don't match the job.
00:07:56.446 --> 00:08:11.716
And so the OAD helps us one select the traits that we need for a job at the time that we're placing that job, then we're able to look at our candidates in a more effective way and make sure that we've got culture experience and the right job traits.
00:08:12.326 --> 00:08:14.365
Then once that person, yeah.
00:08:14.475 --> 00:08:17.326
Onboarded, you can have amazing conversations.
00:08:17.326 --> 00:08:18.735
This is your natural work style.
00:08:18.735 --> 00:08:20.745
This is a natural work style of your supervisor.
00:08:20.745 --> 00:08:23.625
They're probably opposite cause we probably needed someone different.
00:08:24.016 --> 00:08:29.656
And so you can start to close in that conversation really early on about getting to know each other.
00:08:30.045 --> 00:08:41.446
And then we provide coaching reports and all types of tools, roles that allow people to them and use the OAD survey as a life cycle journey, the entire journey of their career.
00:08:41.956 --> 00:08:43.875
How do you position that with the candidate?
00:08:43.875 --> 00:08:53.855
Because I know it can be a bit off putting, you talked about know bad job descriptions before, but sometimes when you go in, you have a barrage of interviews and then they say, Oh, we want you to take this personality test too.
00:08:53.855 --> 00:08:54.995
You're like, Oh, come on.
00:08:54.995 --> 00:08:55.355
It doesn't matter.
00:08:55.505 --> 00:08:56.586
Resume mean anything.
00:08:56.735 --> 00:08:59.375
How do you position it to be a win for the candidates?
00:08:59.775 --> 00:09:03.916
it really is a win for the candidate and that's what we have to make it clear to them.
00:09:04.096 --> 00:09:14.961
So if I'm interviewing for a job and I match everything, being able to be myself at work and not having an additional job stress of trying to fake my personality, that's a benefit.
00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:21.610
And so when we're talking to candidates and we're using the OAD, one of the things we talk about is we use this survey.
00:09:21.610 --> 00:09:24.791
There's no right or wrong, cause there's not, we need all types of people.
00:09:25.181 --> 00:09:26.380
There's no right or wrong.
00:09:26.380 --> 00:09:41.461
But what we want to ensure is that when you come on board that we use this tool to better communicate, To get you up to speed faster, and that you can come to work and be truly consistent to who you naturally are so that we're putting you in the most successful role.
00:09:41.671 --> 00:09:43.171
And no candidate is going to go, you know what?
00:09:43.171 --> 00:09:44.520
I don't really want to be successful.
00:09:44.520 --> 00:09:45.600
I don't want people to know me.
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.760
Most people are going to say fantastic.
00:09:47.791 --> 00:09:49.350
Please let me come to work and be me.
00:09:50.061 --> 00:10:02.025
So do you see companies that are implementing an OAD type assessment as being the type of companies that are very focused on improving their corporate culture, that they go hand in hand.
00:10:02.426 --> 00:10:03.206
Absolutely.
00:10:03.206 --> 00:10:16.885
I also find that companies who put a lot of work into the upfront process of hiring, they have a lot of heart in the way they hire, because they understand that when they hire someone, we change the course of someone's life.
00:10:17.410 --> 00:10:20.980
And when someone starts a new job, it impacts the course of their life.
00:10:21.010 --> 00:10:26.620
It impacts their livelihood, their financial, their happiness, their purpose, it affects their family.
00:10:26.951 --> 00:10:40.331
And so companies with a lot of heart to understand how important it is when we hire someone, those are the types of companies who I work with that bring OAD in so that we can ensure that people we're placing are happy in their role.
00:10:40.541 --> 00:10:42.341
These, if we're happy at work, we go home.
00:10:42.541 --> 00:10:49.951
We're happier with our family, therefore our family's happier and it really is a trickle down way to positively affect your community.
00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:54.100
We're living in this crazy world right now of the workplace.
00:10:54.100 --> 00:11:03.130
Just being completely shaken up because of COVID people are working remotely that never have before companies have had to shift very quickly.
00:11:03.341 --> 00:11:09.130
Education is a mess right now because of teachers having to do remote teaching and students were learning.
00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.365
How are the systems really equipped to handle all that.
00:11:13.365 --> 00:11:19.265
Do you think it requires a very different kind of interview process of onboarding process?
00:11:19.265 --> 00:11:21.485
When you're talking about dealing with remote workers?
00:11:21.885 --> 00:11:29.635
it is, and we do have to look at it different my, corporate career before I started my own business, I was a remote leader.
00:11:29.936 --> 00:11:32.576
I led teams across the globe.
00:11:32.605 --> 00:11:35.846
I had teams, China and Hong Kong and London.
00:11:36.235 --> 00:11:39.596
I have led remotely for most of my career.
00:11:39.956 --> 00:11:45.596
And so when all of this started to change, it really made me pause and think, how did I do that?
00:11:45.596 --> 00:11:46.346
Because that is.
00:11:46.605 --> 00:11:49.485
What was natural to me now I can help others do.
00:11:49.966 --> 00:11:58.546
And so when you think about remote leader leadership, you have to start getting really attached to results and not hours in the seats.
00:11:58.846 --> 00:12:08.956
And I think that's one of the biggest switch for leaders at the end of the day, as long as the job gets done and they've gone above and beyond, I don't think anyone's going to complain, but we have to get really attached to the end result.
00:12:09.355 --> 00:12:10.405
Such a big change.
00:12:10.405 --> 00:12:22.495
I talk about that often on this podcast that you really need to focus on the results and too many old school managers, especially they'd like to see people in those seats, don't they it's really a difficult a mindset shift for them.
00:12:22.895 --> 00:12:23.916
Absolutely.
00:12:23.916 --> 00:12:29.446
And hours in the seats does not equal productivity doesn't equal success.
00:12:29.475 --> 00:12:35.155
And in fact, as we work enough hours, we actually are, our productivity is going down.
00:12:35.155 --> 00:12:44.285
And so if we're getting attached and people are getting, recognition for how many hours they're behind their desk, but they're not getting recognized for results.
00:12:44.556 --> 00:12:52.926
Then we start to see our work put deteriorate, and our highly effective people choose not to be effective because they're not being rewarded for it.
00:12:53.326 --> 00:13:01.725
I know one of the concepts you talk about as well as this idea of a talent cliff, which brings to mind the old game of lemmings, where one just went off the cliff after another.
00:13:01.905 --> 00:13:06.375
So talk a little bit about what is this concept of a talent cliff and how can companies avoid it?
00:13:06.775 --> 00:13:07.076
Yeah.
00:13:07.076 --> 00:13:09.115
So I have seen this time and time again.
00:13:09.115 --> 00:13:11.666
And in fact, been in companies who experienced this.
00:13:11.666 --> 00:13:20.416
And so what a talent cliff is it happens with really aggressive companies that are on that fast track, the ones that are growing very quickly.
00:13:20.745 --> 00:13:26.176
And so what happens is when you launch your company, the skill set out arcs.
00:13:26.291 --> 00:13:27.600
The actual sells.
00:13:27.910 --> 00:13:32.130
And so that's what causes the fast growth because we are doing so well.
00:13:32.130 --> 00:13:34.740
We know what we're doing and things start to really take off.
00:13:35.221 --> 00:13:44.971
But what happens is people get really focused on their business strategies and they don't put a talent strategy that matches the business strategy together.
00:13:44.971 --> 00:13:47.130
And so they stopped taking care of their people.
00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:49.890
They get so busy, they're not making good hiring decisions.
00:13:49.890 --> 00:13:51.510
They're not focused on development.
00:13:51.510 --> 00:13:53.791
They're not focused on great conversations.
00:13:54.225 --> 00:14:06.076
And so what happens is, as the business gets busier, our skills start to deteriorate because we are in crisis management, then the sells continue to escalate.
00:14:06.346 --> 00:14:12.885
And at some point your talent skills go off the cliff and then your sales will go right back behind it.
00:14:12.885 --> 00:14:16.005
And you will see that your sells start to dive bomb down.
00:14:16.005 --> 00:14:17.176
And no one wants that.
00:14:17.176 --> 00:14:22.125
And so many times when I see this happen, it's because we just don't have a talent strategy.
00:14:22.525 --> 00:14:24.275
It's your best people who leave first.
00:14:24.676 --> 00:14:25.816
You're absolutely right.
00:14:25.816 --> 00:14:34.336
The best people want to be in an organization where they will be challenged, where they're going to learn where they get to work with the best of the best.
00:14:34.725 --> 00:14:39.586
And when you start to crisis manage, because you're looking at that cliff.
00:14:40.150 --> 00:14:44.201
Your top performers are gonna leave because top performers want to use their mind.
00:14:44.230 --> 00:14:51.671
They want to make their own decisions and they do not want to be managed in a crisis situation where they're being told what to do.
00:14:51.671 --> 00:14:53.260
They want to use their own mind.
00:14:53.591 --> 00:14:56.711
And those that you're left with are going to probably do what they're told.
00:14:56.995 --> 00:15:07.495
But the problem with that is then the leaders of the organization are frustrated because they're doing all the telling of people and they're standing around looking at each other going, why aren't people actually just doing their job?
00:15:07.495 --> 00:15:08.785
Why aren't they making their own decisions?
00:15:09.025 --> 00:15:11.096
Why am I having to tell everyone what to do?
00:15:11.275 --> 00:15:13.405
What was our own actions that created that?
00:15:13.806 --> 00:15:18.546
It seems so many organizations that I know I've been a part of and friends as well.
00:15:18.875 --> 00:15:23.510
That what seems to happen is that hiring is always an afterthought.
00:15:23.571 --> 00:15:28.880
You wait until a problem starts to occur, people have left the organization and the team is too small.
00:15:29.150 --> 00:15:34.461
It seems like very few organizations really hire for growth, where they anticipate where they're going to be.
00:15:34.461 --> 00:15:36.471
They have confidence that they're going to get there.
00:15:36.650 --> 00:15:45.971
And so they start to bring people on board before that cliff or before that crisis point so that people can be trained and fully productive by the time they get there.
00:15:46.421 --> 00:15:47.471
Why do you think that is?
00:15:47.471 --> 00:15:50.291
And do you see that often when you're consulting with your clients?
00:15:50.691 --> 00:15:51.081
I do.
00:15:51.081 --> 00:15:52.431
I see it all of the time.
00:15:52.431 --> 00:15:53.691
And I think there's a couple of reasons.
00:15:53.691 --> 00:15:56.331
there are obviously financial reasons around that.
00:15:56.610 --> 00:16:00.500
but there's so many interesting strategies that you can use to approach that.
00:16:00.510 --> 00:16:04.441
So say, the work starting to get difficult in one department, but you're not sure.
00:16:04.495 --> 00:16:10.505
Quite ready for a full, salary, bring in a contractor part time, then groom that person.
00:16:10.505 --> 00:16:14.105
So when you're ready for full time that person's ready to come on full time.
00:16:14.475 --> 00:16:23.730
the other thing that we don't do, naturally I see this all the time in companies is we don't project the work and project the skills.
00:16:24.061 --> 00:16:33.341
And so if we have a business projection that our business is going to increase 30% in three years, that means our team needs to be 30% more efficient.
00:16:33.341 --> 00:16:35.561
Their capabilities need to go up 30%.
00:16:35.561 --> 00:16:37.600
So what do they need to learn today?
00:16:38.020 --> 00:16:44.230
So that in three years they have the experience to lead a company that's doing 30% more.
00:16:44.471 --> 00:16:49.120
So not only do we hire to it, we don't project the development that our teams need.
00:16:49.530 --> 00:16:54.931
And if we projected and did a better job developing, we probably would actually not need to hire as many people.
00:16:55.140 --> 00:16:57.000
And that would solve the financial issue.
00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:07.601
So true, because I think especially for many publicly traded companies, there's always this push for increased earnings and profitability and at the same time expense reduction.
00:17:07.721 --> 00:17:09.881
So they're looking to cut costs at the same time.
00:17:09.881 --> 00:17:21.326
they're looking to grow and oftentimes one of the easiest places, especially for new executives that come in, is they just slash head count and so what ends up happening is it puts more work on fewer people.
00:17:21.726 --> 00:17:22.056
Yeah.
00:17:22.086 --> 00:17:23.675
And the work isn't reorganized.
00:17:23.675 --> 00:17:30.635
So oftentimes we do have to make difficult decisions around head count, but what we don't do is sit down and say what work has to be done.
00:17:31.086 --> 00:17:40.786
And one of the exercises I like to do with individuals when we're looking at work is, when you look at the 50 things you need this job to do, how many of the 50 is a must to do.
00:17:41.161 --> 00:17:44.611
How many is a nice to do and how much has actually vanity work.
00:17:45.030 --> 00:17:54.451
And when we stop and look at what we do every day in the workplace, there's a lot of vanity work is that work that doesn't drive the business that we're just doing, because someone likes it.
00:17:54.451 --> 00:17:58.111
Someone likes to see a report that way someone just thinks we're supposed to.
00:17:58.576 --> 00:18:04.965
And what happens when we caught get caught up in vanity work, we are losing productivity because the person doing it's like, why am I doing this?
00:18:04.965 --> 00:18:06.286
It doesn't make a difference.
00:18:06.556 --> 00:18:08.115
We've lost their purpose.
00:18:08.385 --> 00:18:12.496
And we are creating extra headcount that we actually don't need.
00:18:12.855 --> 00:18:17.445
And when I work with organizations, that's one of the first things we do is what is required.
00:18:17.445 --> 00:18:18.526
What is nice to do?
00:18:18.816 --> 00:18:19.506
what are we doing?
00:18:19.506 --> 00:18:20.496
Cause out of habit.
00:18:20.496 --> 00:18:22.596
And let's get honest about what's vanity work.
00:18:24.088 --> 00:18:26.939
Hey, it's Eric here and we'll be right back to the podcast.
00:18:26.939 --> 00:18:31.798
But first, are you ready to grow, scale, and take your marketing to the next level?
00:18:32.009 --> 00:18:38.368
If so, The Five Echelon Group's Virtual CMO onsulting service may be a great fit for you.
00:00:01.947 --> 00:00:08.310
00:00:08.577 --> 00:00:22.940
00:00:24.702 --> 00:00:26.952
00:00:27.193 --> 00:00:28.928
00:00:29.263 --> 00:00:41.622
00:00:41.673 --> 00:00:45.063
00:00:45.302 --> 00:00:52.862
00:00:52.862 --> 00:01:08.072
00:01:08.403 --> 00:01:11.373
00:01:11.433 --> 00:01:23.102
00:01:23.783 --> 00:01:26.033
00:01:26.033 --> 00:01:27.623
00:01:28.022 --> 00:01:28.412
00:01:28.412 --> 00:01:29.733
00:01:30.483 --> 00:01:34.593
00:01:34.862 --> 00:01:36.843
00:01:36.843 --> 00:01:37.503
00:01:37.503 --> 00:01:38.522
00:01:38.793 --> 00:01:41.643
00:01:41.643 --> 00:01:42.722
00:01:43.408 --> 00:01:43.707
00:01:43.947 --> 00:01:48.058
00:01:48.058 --> 00:01:50.518
00:01:50.518 --> 00:01:52.168
00:01:52.168 --> 00:01:55.768
00:01:55.798 --> 00:01:58.227
00:01:58.257 --> 00:02:02.608
00:02:02.608 --> 00:02:05.697
00:02:05.697 --> 00:02:06.597
00:02:07.097 --> 00:02:07.697
00:02:07.697 --> 00:02:11.087
00:02:11.087 --> 00:02:11.448
00:02:11.848 --> 00:02:13.437
00:02:13.437 --> 00:02:18.027
00:02:18.027 --> 00:02:19.978
00:02:20.147 --> 00:02:20.538
00:02:20.538 --> 00:02:22.307
00:02:22.337 --> 00:02:23.328
00:02:23.598 --> 00:02:26.298
00:02:26.298 --> 00:02:28.068
00:02:28.247 --> 00:02:35.117
00:02:35.358 --> 00:02:38.657
00:02:39.057 --> 00:02:44.307
00:02:44.307 --> 00:02:49.497
00:02:49.918 --> 00:02:56.647
00:02:56.647 --> 00:03:00.768
00:03:00.768 --> 00:03:05.418
00:03:05.687 --> 00:03:11.598
00:03:11.907 --> 00:03:17.848
00:03:18.177 --> 00:03:22.198
00:03:22.573 --> 00:03:25.173
00:03:25.203 --> 00:03:29.943
00:03:30.302 --> 00:03:32.133
00:03:32.353 --> 00:03:40.393
00:03:40.872 --> 00:03:43.423
00:03:43.823 --> 00:03:52.622
00:03:52.622 --> 00:03:56.733
00:03:57.122 --> 00:04:05.733
00:04:06.032 --> 00:04:06.122
00:04:06.152 --> 00:04:07.923
00:04:08.133 --> 00:04:09.812
00:04:10.212 --> 00:04:11.682
00:04:11.682 --> 00:04:13.772
00:04:13.772 --> 00:04:21.762
00:04:21.762 --> 00:04:24.343
00:04:24.612 --> 00:04:29.083
00:04:29.262 --> 00:04:34.692
00:04:34.968 --> 00:04:38.778
00:04:39.257 --> 00:04:43.697
00:04:43.697 --> 00:04:47.028
00:04:47.708 --> 00:04:56.968
00:04:56.968 --> 00:04:58.288
00:04:58.288 --> 00:05:04.377
00:05:04.648 --> 00:05:10.598
00:05:10.598 --> 00:05:12.937
00:05:13.017 --> 00:05:14.937
00:05:15.338 --> 00:05:16.028
00:05:16.028 --> 00:05:18.007
00:05:18.007 --> 00:05:21.327
00:05:21.608 --> 00:05:28.548
00:05:28.637 --> 00:05:33.497
00:05:33.858 --> 00:05:42.802
00:05:42.802 --> 00:05:52.733
00:05:52.733 --> 00:05:54.112
00:05:54.512 --> 00:05:59.762
00:06:00.293 --> 00:06:10.523
00:06:10.733 --> 00:06:16.372
00:06:16.372 --> 00:06:17.062
00:06:17.463 --> 00:06:18.963
00:06:19.072 --> 00:06:26.723
00:06:26.752 --> 00:06:30.923
00:06:30.923 --> 00:06:33.083
00:06:33.562 --> 00:06:39.052
00:06:39.233 --> 00:06:46.103
00:06:46.103 --> 00:06:48.733
00:06:49.062 --> 00:06:53.023
00:06:53.322 --> 00:06:57.612
00:06:57.882 --> 00:07:09.392
00:07:09.793 --> 00:07:14.702
00:07:14.702 --> 00:07:23.586
00:07:23.586 --> 00:07:26.005
00:07:26.206 --> 00:07:32.565
00:07:32.565 --> 00:07:36.016
00:07:36.286 --> 00:07:49.495
00:07:49.826 --> 00:07:55.815
00:07:56.446 --> 00:08:11.716
00:08:12.326 --> 00:08:14.365
00:08:14.475 --> 00:08:17.326
00:08:17.326 --> 00:08:18.735
00:08:18.735 --> 00:08:20.745
00:08:20.745 --> 00:08:23.625
00:08:24.016 --> 00:08:29.656
00:08:30.045 --> 00:08:41.446
00:08:41.956 --> 00:08:43.875
00:08:43.875 --> 00:08:53.855
00:08:53.855 --> 00:08:54.995
00:08:54.995 --> 00:08:55.355
00:08:55.505 --> 00:08:56.586
00:08:56.735 --> 00:08:59.375
00:08:59.775 --> 00:09:03.916
00:09:04.096 --> 00:09:14.961
00:09:15.380 --> 00:09:21.610
00:09:21.610 --> 00:09:24.791
00:09:25.181 --> 00:09:26.380
00:09:26.380 --> 00:09:41.461
00:09:41.671 --> 00:09:43.171
00:09:43.171 --> 00:09:44.520
00:09:44.520 --> 00:09:45.600
00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.760
00:09:47.791 --> 00:09:49.350
00:09:50.061 --> 00:10:02.025
00:10:02.426 --> 00:10:03.206
00:10:03.206 --> 00:10:16.885
00:10:17.410 --> 00:10:20.980
00:10:21.010 --> 00:10:26.620
00:10:26.951 --> 00:10:40.331
00:10:40.541 --> 00:10:42.341
00:10:42.541 --> 00:10:49.951
00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:54.100
00:10:54.100 --> 00:11:03.130
00:11:03.341 --> 00:11:09.130
00:11:09.730 --> 00:11:13.365
00:11:13.365 --> 00:11:19.265
00:11:19.265 --> 00:11:21.485
00:11:21.885 --> 00:11:29.635
00:11:29.936 --> 00:11:32.576
00:11:32.605 --> 00:11:35.846
00:11:36.235 --> 00:11:39.596
00:11:39.956 --> 00:11:45.596
00:11:45.596 --> 00:11:46.346
00:11:46.605 --> 00:11:49.485
00:11:49.966 --> 00:11:58.546
00:11:58.846 --> 00:12:08.956
00:12:09.355 --> 00:12:10.405
00:12:10.405 --> 00:12:22.495
00:12:22.895 --> 00:12:23.916
00:12:23.916 --> 00:12:29.446
00:12:29.475 --> 00:12:35.155
00:12:35.155 --> 00:12:44.285
00:12:44.556 --> 00:12:52.926
00:12:53.326 --> 00:13:01.725
00:13:01.905 --> 00:13:06.375
00:13:06.775 --> 00:13:07.076
00:13:07.076 --> 00:13:09.115
00:13:09.115 --> 00:13:11.666
00:13:11.666 --> 00:13:20.416
00:13:20.745 --> 00:13:26.176
00:13:26.291 --> 00:13:27.600
00:13:27.910 --> 00:13:32.130
00:13:32.130 --> 00:13:34.740
00:13:35.221 --> 00:13:44.971
00:13:44.971 --> 00:13:47.130
00:13:47.370 --> 00:13:49.890
00:13:49.890 --> 00:13:51.510
00:13:51.510 --> 00:13:53.791
00:13:54.225 --> 00:14:06.076
00:14:06.346 --> 00:14:12.885
00:14:12.885 --> 00:14:16.005
00:14:16.005 --> 00:14:17.176
00:14:17.176 --> 00:14:22.125
00:14:22.525 --> 00:14:24.275
00:14:24.676 --> 00:14:25.816
00:14:25.816 --> 00:14:34.336
00:14:34.725 --> 00:14:39.586
00:14:40.150 --> 00:14:44.201
00:14:44.230 --> 00:14:51.671
00:14:51.671 --> 00:14:53.260
00:14:53.591 --> 00:14:56.711
00:14:56.995 --> 00:15:07.495
00:15:07.495 --> 00:15:08.785
00:15:09.025 --> 00:15:11.096
00:15:11.275 --> 00:15:13.405
00:15:13.806 --> 00:15:18.546
00:15:18.875 --> 00:15:23.510
00:15:23.571 --> 00:15:28.880
00:15:29.150 --> 00:15:34.461
00:15:34.461 --> 00:15:36.471
00:15:36.650 --> 00:15:45.971
00:15:46.421 --> 00:15:47.471
00:15:47.471 --> 00:15:50.291
00:15:50.691 --> 00:15:51.081
00:15:51.081 --> 00:15:52.431
00:15:52.431 --> 00:15:53.691
00:15:53.691 --> 00:15:56.331
00:15:56.610 --> 00:16:00.500
00:16:00.510 --> 00:16:04.441
00:16:04.495 --> 00:16:10.505
00:16:10.505 --> 00:16:14.105
00:16:14.475 --> 00:16:23.730
00:16:24.061 --> 00:16:33.341
00:16:33.341 --> 00:16:35.561
00:16:35.561 --> 00:16:37.600
00:16:38.020 --> 00:16:44.230
00:16:44.471 --> 00:16:49.120
00:16:49.530 --> 00:16:54.931
00:16:55.140 --> 00:16:57.000
00:16:57.400 --> 00:17:07.601
00:17:07.721 --> 00:17:09.881
00:17:09.881 --> 00:17:21.326
00:17:21.726 --> 00:17:22.056
00:17:22.086 --> 00:17:23.675
00:17:23.675 --> 00:17:30.635
00:17:31.086 --> 00:17:40.786
00:17:41.161 --> 00:17:44.611
00:17:45.030 --> 00:17:54.451
00:17:54.451 --> 00:17:58.111
00:17:58.576 --> 00:18:04.965
00:18:04.965 --> 00:18:06.286
00:18:06.556 --> 00:18:08.115
00:18:08.385 --> 00:18:12.496
00:18:12.855 --> 00:18:17.445
00:18:17.445 --> 00:18:18.526
00:18:18.816 --> 00:18:19.506
00:18:19.506 --> 00:18:20.496
00:18:20.496 --> 00:18:22.596
00:18:24.088 --> 00:18:26.939
00:18:26.939 --> 00:18:31.798
00:18:32.009 --> 00:18:38.368