March 11, 2021
How to Expand Your Team with Digital Freelancers and Content Creators with Michael Fleischner
In part 6 of our Masterclass Series, host Eric Dickmann interviews Michael Fleischner. As an entrepreneur, marketer, and author, Michael Fleischner is the Founder of Big Fin SEO, a search engine optimization and digital marketing agency based in Robbinsville, New Jersey.
He is also the author of a number of books including "SEO Made Simple," now in its 7th edition, and hosts a weekly podcast titled, “The Digital Freelancers.” of which Eric was a recent guest: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-freelancers/id1485095993?i=1000495420261
Michael is a Past-President for the American Marketing Association of New Jersey and currently serves on an AMA national board.
For additional resources on this episode and from our other episodes in this Masterclass Series, visit https://fiveechelon.com/masterclass
For more information about Eric Dickmann and The Five Echelon Group, visit https://fiveechelon.com/
For more information about Michael Fleischner and Big Fin SEO, visit https://bigfinseo.com
Listen to The Digital Freelancers podcast at https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/digital-freelancers/id1485095993
Episode #57
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WEBVTT
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Hey, Michael, welcome to the virtual CMO podcast.
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I'm so glad you could join us today.
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So glad to be here, Eric really excited to be talking to your listeners today and really just excited to be talking about market marketing in a new year.
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That gets me really jazzed.
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I know it's a, it's hard to believe this past year, you know, 2020 was pretty chaotic.
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And I think it changed a lot of norms that we're used to in business.
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And so it's going to be very interesting to see how 2021 works out.
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And I think that's one of the reasons that we're doing this masterclass series is you're all around building out a strategic marketing plan.
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Because I think it's a great time for marketers to really consider how they've been, uh, acting in the past, what they've been doing, and really try to figure out a way to better coordinate their efforts, to get the most success out of their marketing programs.
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And, uh, so I'm really great full for you being on the show here today.
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If you would just give the audience a quick summary of, uh, of your background and tell them a little bit about yourself.
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Sure.
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There's certainly a lot to unpack there.
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You know, I think most relevant for this audience is I'm a lifetime marketer.
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I started out in corporate marketing.
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I did that for many years, and then I moved to, um, kind of the agency side.
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I had my own little agency I exited out of that then decided to go back into corporate America, to run marketing marketing teams, and then eventually start my own agency again.
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So my expertise is really around digital marketing, specifically SEO search engine optimization.
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But, you know, along the way, Eric, which I know we'll be talking about in some detail today, uh, I've really grown.
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Uh, excited, I guess, about the, the new environment in which we live and work and being able to get work done via freelancing and freelancers.
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So I know.
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Uh, previously in your master class, you've talked about strategic planning and messaging and all of these things that kind of lead up to the doing.
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So it's creating content, it's building websites, it's doing search engine optimization, paid search, social media, and all of that can be done in a very different way today than it's been done in the past.
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So I'm really excited to be sharing that with your audience and, uh, you know, today my agency is big fin SEO.
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Uh, again, Digital marketing, but we've also created some software to help freelancers.
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Uh, work more efficiently.
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So a report hopper, uh, is a piece of software that I created with a partner.
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To improve reporting a freelancers to clients.
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So as we kind of get into the discussion today, we're going to talk about like, what are some of the most important things you need to know if you're a freelancer yourself or you're working with.
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Freelancers managing freelance freelancers.
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Uh, trying to interact with freelancers.
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And one of those aspects is how do you show or illustrate the work that's being done and the results.
00:03:03.008 --> 00:03:04.837
So lots to talk about today.
00:03:05.228 --> 00:03:14.707
Yeah, I think this is going to be a very interesting conversation because in previous episodes, we talked a little bit about building out your brand story and why that's so important.
00:03:15.038 --> 00:03:30.337
And once you've developed your brand story, really creating some compelling market messaging to then go out and explain to the marketplace, what your products and services do, why are they different from the competitors and really what the value proposition is?
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You know, um, if, if you haven't seen a door, our audience hasn't seen it.
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I would encourage everybody to go back and look at Steve jobs, original introduction of the iPhone.
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You know, we just celebrated the anniversary of that the other day.
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And so I saw a lot of commentators bringing that up again.
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And so I actually, this week I went back and watched it and it's a masterful presentation.
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Because he just nails the fact that there was a problem that others in the industry hadn't really addressed the problem and that this new device, this iPhone that was coming out was completely looking at the problem in a different way.
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And the way that he walks through that step-by-step is just masterful.
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And I think it's a marketing plan in a.
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In a presentation it's well worth the time to, uh, to take a look at, but you know, as we talk about this whole idea of content, You know, you work with a lot of freelancers.
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Uh, you do things with your own agency.
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What do you think makes good content.
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I think what makes good content really follows the rubric that you've already set out, which is understanding that as marketers, we do one thing and we do one thing well, which is solving problems.
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And that's what, uh, Apple does, uh, you know, the iPhone solved the problem or multiple problems about usability and how difficult things were to use.
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And here they come along with, with a simple solution.
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And I think good content does the same good content understands the challenge of your clients.
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What problems are they trying to solve and really helping to navigate them through to the solution.
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And that's extremely important.
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So when people say what makes good content, the answer should be, it depends.
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And what does it depend on?
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It depends on what are the issues that your prospects, your customers, people in your niche are struggling with.
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Because I always have a saying, which is the trend is your friend.
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And, you know, a lot of people think that they're smart or cute talking about maybe something on the bleeding edge, but if no, one's talking about it, you're not going to have an audience for it.
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So, you know, this goes back to a blue ocean strategy versus red ocean strategy.
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And in some ways that doesn't really work on the content front.
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That's my opinion, because if you're out in this blue ocean where no one else is talking about it, you don't have an audience.
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So you have to find kind of the middle ground between blue ocean and red ocean.
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I don't know what that's called, but in that area, you're starting to talk about something that not a ton of people are talking about, but people know about.
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And when you can do that, when you can find that sweet.
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spot.
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Oftentimes that content that's aligned to all the work that you know, people have been doing.
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And you've been coaching through the masterclass, Eric.
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Around, you know, what is unique about your product or service?
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What's unique about your viewpoint when you write and produce content, whether that's print or digital.
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So a lot of things to consider there, but ultimately good content.
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It's, it's kinda like, you know, you'll know it when you see it.
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And the reason why is because if you're the target audience, it's going to resonate with you and it's going to be meaningful.
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You know, there was a time.
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It doesn't seem like that long ago, but it probably was where, you know, our marketing team would put together a couple of nice power point decks.
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They would build some hard copy collateral, you know, there was a website and whatever, but.
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Now things have really changed when you start to talk about content in the context of SEO in driving interest, and this whole idea that you talked about, where you have to be part of a conversation that's actually happening.
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Because if you're too far out there, nobody is going to find that conversation that you're having.
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And so this idea of.
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Building a regular stream of content, whether that's blog posting, whether that's social media, whether it's updating your website, you know, building pillar pages, other things like that.
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There is just this need now to create really volumes of content so that you can find that audience.
00:07:56.827 --> 00:07:57.218
Yeah.
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And I think, you know, I'll use an example, a client we're working with actually, uh, we just had a call with them yesterday.
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Uh, there really early on in the process around.
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An emerging topic, something that not a lot of people are talking about in their industry and where we focused was not so much on the volume of content, but on creating Seminole content, evergreen content.
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And we're not talking about a 350 word blog post.
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We're talking about a 2000 word article.
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That really goes into detail about this particular, particular topic, the history of the topic links out to resources related to the topic and references.
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And the reason we're doing that is because it really is that blue ocean strategy.
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So they have to lay a strong enough foundation, much.
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Like you just mentioned, pillar pages, Eric on a website, right?
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When you're thinking about new content from a blogging perspective in particular.
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You have to really start where you are and have a view of where the market is and meet that demand.
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So if we were much further into this market, Then I would probably say, okay, well now it's time to rethink our content and go beyond blog posts.
00:09:12.187 --> 00:09:28.177
And maybe now we're doing a video reviews of all the different providers and how you can differentiate one from the other or tips and strategies on how to, uh, make the most of your budget in relation to this particular topic.
00:09:28.567 --> 00:09:32.557
So, you know, all of that really depends on market maturity.
00:09:32.827 --> 00:09:49.207
And again, always, you know, going back to the strategy piece to understand what is the goal and what is the ideal way to get there, given your particular product or service and where you are in the lifecycle of that particular product or service.
00:09:49.538 --> 00:10:05.467
And I'm glad you mentioned some of those content types, because I do want to drill down into that a little bit more, but before we go there, You know, I think as I've dealt with many businesses, one of the challenges that they have around content, and one of the reasons why I think this discussion is so valuable today.
00:10:05.918 --> 00:10:10.658
Is that, especially when they're writing some of them find that pretty intimidating.
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What topics do I write about, you know, what format do I put them in?
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Is it on my webpage?
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Is it in a blog?
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Is it in some kind of a downloadable piece of collateral?
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And I think it scares people to the point where they just stall out.
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They don't know what steps to take next.
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And for many of the people that are in our audience who are small and mid-sized businesses.
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Sometimes you can have a fairly small marketing team.
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Maybe it's just a couple of junior level people, maybe who do you want to even have a journalism background or writing background?
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So they don't know where to go with the content.
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And that's one of the real benefits that I can see with working with freelancers is you can augment your team.
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How do you see that playing out with the people that you work with?
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The people that you talk to.
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On your podcast, the digital freelancer podcast.
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How do you see these freelancers interacting with existing marketing teams?
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Yeah, that's really the beauty of freelancing.
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That's why I'm such a freelancing nerd.
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It's because, you know, years ago when I was on the corporate side, I had large marketing teams, 12, 14, 18 people.
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And now if you go into corporate America, your marketing teams are more like three or four people.
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And the reason is because in the past they were freelancers that, you know, they did a little work.
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Um, In a given area or maybe they were a little more broad stroke.
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But what has happened is because there are so many freelancing platforms available today.
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And really, I guess the nature of work has changed more and more people in addition to their full-time jobs are also saying, Hey, I want to make a little extra money.
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I have my nights and weekends available.
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I have my lunch hour available.
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What can I do?
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How can I lend my skills out?
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So what we find happening is that the quality of your typical freelancer today.
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Versus just a few years ago is significantly greater.
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Meaning, you know, you can just like, uh, the fractional CMO, uh, type of, uh, organization where you're getting access to people who are extremely qualified that otherwise you probably, especially if you're a small business, wouldn't be able to afford.
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So this idea of freelancing is really designed so that when you have a specific need, you can bring in a qualified person and pay much less than you would to bring that person on full time and pay benefits.
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And, you know, all of the other things that go along with it.
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So.
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For me, I like freelancing because especially when it comes to digital marketing.
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They're very specific skillsets to find someone who's actually really good at running Google ads.
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For example.
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That's not easy.
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You're not gonna find somebody.
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Uh, you know, internationally who really does it on a small scale, meaning for small clients, you need to find someone let's say who works at an agency.
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Who's running paid search campaigns all day, every day, across multiple industries.
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And has, let's say, you know, five to 10 years of experience, and you can do that today with the freelancing model.
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And you know, that was much more difficult in the past.
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So freelancing allows you to really find a specific audience.
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Or I'm sorry, a specific skillset for your need or your audience.
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And, uh, we see this across virtually every aspect of digital marketing from digital ads to social media management, to content development, uh, writers and writing editors, um, video production, the list goes on and on and on, but these are experts that you can use really on a part-time basis.
00:13:59.467 --> 00:14:03.878
And Eric, that's the other aspect that we haven't really talked about yet, but.
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You know, it used to be that if you needed help, you would either hire an agency for a lot of money or you would hire someone full time.
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There really was.
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No.
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Solution in the middle.
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And that's what freelancing provides.
00:14:16.298 --> 00:14:16.508
Right?
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It's a short term.
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It could be for a project or it could be someone that you're using, you know, for certain number of hours a month.
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And you have that flexibility.
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I think a great example is, you know, as a homeowner, right, there are projects that you decide you can do yourself.
00:14:33.518 --> 00:14:35.288
And then, you know, the air conditioning breaks.
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So you call in a repair man, who's got a specialization in fixing heating and cooling systems, or you need a new roof and you hire a roofer.
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There are things that you can do on your own, but if you want something done right.
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Sometimes the best thing to do is really go out and hire people who have very specific skills in that area, because I see far too many companies trying to do everything on their own and ended up doing none of it very well.
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And it just ends up wasting time, wasting money and hindering the growth of a company.
00:15:08.378 --> 00:15:12.788
And so I think, you know, we live in such a small world right now.
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You can hire people that live a half a world away sometimes at very, very competitive rates.
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And by doing so, you're getting somebody with some significant skills that you might not have.
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And that allows you to really accelerate some of your, your marketing plans.
00:15:30.097 --> 00:15:33.067
And I'm glad you sort of mentioned this whole idea of.
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Fractional executive or what I do, which is a virtual CMO.
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Because there is then this effort that you have to wrangle all these outside resources, right?
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Somebody has to be watching over the people that you hire, whether you're outsourcing to an agency and various freelancers or other companies, how do you recommend that people do that?
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How do you add that to your marketing plan so that you can ensure consistency across people doing different things?
00:16:02.077 --> 00:16:06.368
I think there are really two things there that are extremely important to keep in mind.
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The first is if you are working with freelancers or starting to work with freelancers, make them part of your team.
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These are people who you want to invest in.
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You want to bring them into the fold, uh, you know, be transparent, focus your efforts around making sure that they feel like they're part of your team.
00:16:25.597 --> 00:16:27.067
And this is something I think we all.
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really accelerated over the last year.
00:16:30.008 --> 00:16:36.097
And that is, you know, most of these freelancers are, all of these freelancers are going to be virtual in nature.
00:16:36.457 --> 00:16:40.597
So, you know, you probably have other employees who are virtual in nature.
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If you're sending out an email, include the freelancer.
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If you're having a zoom call, include the freelancer, make them part of your team.
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I think that's extremely important.
00:16:50.408 --> 00:16:52.057
So I would say that's number one.
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And number two is have systems in place that allow you to manage your specific projects.
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And I'm talking about base camp.
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I'm talking about a Trello, I'm talking about any project management, Kanban there, dozens of these things, um, you know, a sauna.
00:17:11.498 --> 00:17:25.657
Uh, uh, at LaSeon or agile, there are lots of different software tools that can be used to manage the tasks that freelancers are doing in relation to overall projects.
00:17:25.988 --> 00:17:39.337
And that way, again, there's transparency and that freelancer can see if he or she has worked to do what the contingencies are on other projects and other people that are part of your team.
00:17:39.728 --> 00:17:45.248
So again, if You're focused on really working effectively with freelancers one.
00:17:45.278 --> 00:17:56.107
You want to make them part of your team and to, you want to include them in project management software or project management tools that your organization is using.
00:17:56.107 --> 00:18:03.847
And if you're not currently using any of those tools, um, Eric, you know, there's so many of them available today and they're reasonably inexpensive.
00:18:04.147 --> 00:18:11.228
Uh, so, so even if you're just starting out, it's worth investing in those tools, just so everyone can be, uh, you know, involved.
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with the project and see what's going on.
00:18:13.417 --> 00:18:15.337
I think that's so spot on.
00:18:15.337 --> 00:18:18.998
And I would also just add to that, you know, we're, we're doing this master class.
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Under the umbrella of creating a strategic marketing plan.
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And one of the reasons that it's so important to get that plan in place.
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Is you don't want to have to spend your time trying to figure out how to keep these people busy.
00:18:32.018 --> 00:18:37.627
You want to have a plan in place so that you know exactly what everybody is supposed to be doing.
00:18:37.688 --> 00:18:43.688
You want to be way ahead of the curve, because the worst thing is to sort of have people that you've hired.
00:18:43.688 --> 00:18:47.978
You've brought on board and you're scrambling to try to figure out something for them to do.
00:18:49.178 --> 00:18:49.417
Yeah.
00:18:49.478 --> 00:19:08.198
And I would add to that to Eric and say, you know, when you find the right freelancer and although it's much easier to find good freelancers today, there are a lot of things that going into finding the right freelancer, you know, do they understand your industry, your organization, uh, from a culture perspective, do you work well with them?
00:19:08.407 --> 00:19:10.778
Are they independent or do you have to hand hold them?
00:19:11.018 --> 00:19:20.018
There are a lot of things that you, as a manager, as a leader are going to have to work through in order to find the right Lancer, but when you do you want to hold on to that freelancer?
00:19:20.317 --> 00:19:29.887
And that means that if there's a lull in projects, to your point, Eric, are there other ways to engage them or are there other things that will help move the ball forward?
00:19:30.218 --> 00:19:34.597
Um, you know, focused around that strategic plan and the specific goals you've set.
00:19:34.867 --> 00:19:41.167
Or do you continue to keep them on knowing that the projects are gonna, you know, pick up again?
00:19:41.498 --> 00:19:47.647
And I say that because it's really important to think about freelancers, as you would think about building your team.
00:19:47.948 --> 00:19:49.897
You want high performers on your team.
00:19:49.988 --> 00:19:55.867
You want freelancers who are high performers, and remember they're freelancing to make a living.
00:19:55.867 --> 00:19:57.397
And a lot of people forget that.
00:19:57.667 --> 00:19:57.968
Right.
00:19:57.968 --> 00:20:03.938
So they're making a living and if they're not getting it from you, they're getting it from somewhere, someone else.
00:20:04.238 --> 00:20:14.587
So if you find that right freelancer and you want to hang on to them, you definitely want to make sure that the projects and the work keep coming so that they dedicate more and more of their time to you and your organization.
00:20:15.607 --> 00:20:21.067
And I think, you know, we talked a little bit about different content types where freelancers could help.
00:20:21.397 --> 00:20:28.268
And I think sometimes the content type also determines sort of how freelancers can be used on your team.
00:20:28.268 --> 00:20:44.317
So for example, if you're hiring out a web developer to do some specific work on your website, well, obviously once that work on the website is done or gets to a stopping point, Those aren't necessarily skills that transfer easily to other areas.
00:20:44.798 --> 00:20:52.958
Versus if you hire a writer, for example, they could be writing social media posts, they could be writing, uh, pieces of collateral.
00:20:52.958 --> 00:20:54.337
They could be doing blog posts.
00:20:54.367 --> 00:20:57.127
There are a lot of different ways that they can be used.
00:20:57.488 --> 00:21:01.657
So if I'd love to go through some of these content types and just talk about it.
00:21:01.657 --> 00:21:07.057
So obviously your website is your home, your digital home on the web.
00:21:07.087 --> 00:21:12.548
It's almost every customer that you're going to interact with is probably going to visit your website at some point.
00:21:12.938 --> 00:21:14.167
And there are so.
00:21:14.228 --> 00:21:19.387
Many people out there who offer various web development skills and resources.
00:21:19.718 --> 00:21:23.678
What do you say to somebody who is saying, Hey, I need some help with my website.
00:21:23.678 --> 00:21:24.847
I need to update it.
00:21:25.147 --> 00:21:27.127
Maybe I should go get a freelancer to help.
00:21:27.188 --> 00:21:30.577
What, what kind of things would you tell them to watch out for, or look for?
00:21:31.837 --> 00:21:35.228
Well, I think the advice at least initially would be go for it.
00:21:35.617 --> 00:21:36.728
You know, I'm a big believer.
00:21:36.758 --> 00:21:41.258
Keep your website updated at your 24 seven three 65 sales person.
00:21:41.528 --> 00:21:45.998
And if it doesn't look good, if it doesn't respond well, if it's not mobile responsive.
00:21:46.238 --> 00:21:50.228
Uh, if it's not optimized from a search engine optimization perspective.
00:21:50.557 --> 00:21:54.188
Um, it's really not doing what it's supposed to do.
00:21:54.607 --> 00:21:59.137
So trying to find someone to, uh, work on your website.
00:21:59.498 --> 00:22:04.327
My advice would be really understand what it is you're looking to have done.
00:22:04.597 --> 00:22:09.278
You know, are you looking for the site site just to be optimized from an SEO perspective?
00:22:09.607 --> 00:22:12.788
Are you looking for an upgrade to the existing site?
00:22:12.817 --> 00:22:15.008
Meaning maybe a new look and feel.
00:22:15.428 --> 00:22:24.458
And that should determine really what you want, because once you go down that rabbit hole, it can get pretty complicated quickly.
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