Jan. 9, 2022
How to Tailor Marketing to Your Unique Buyer’s Journey with Justin Varuzzo
In episode 111, host Eric Dickmann interviews Justin Varuzzo. Justin has over 20 years of experience focusing on the intersection of marketing and customer service. This led him to start the Marketing and Service podcast for business leaders and entrepreneurs who want to build stronger customer relationships and set themselves apart from their competitors. The podcast features successful business leaders who reveal how they overcame pitfalls to become what they are today.
For more information and access to the resources mentioned in this episode, visit:
https://fiveechelon.com/create-unique-buyers-journey-s7ep10/
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WEBVTT
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Welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast.
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I'm your host, Eric Dickmann.
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In this podcast, we have conversations with marketing professionals who share the strategies, tactics, and mindset you can use to improve the effectiveness of your marketing activities and grow your business.
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Justin, welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast.
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Very glad you could join us today.
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Thanks for having me, Eric.
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I appreciate it.
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We get a chance to dive in, talk about some of my favorite topics today with a fellow podcaster.
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So that's always exciting.
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I'm excited to talk about this because, you know, we had a discussion the other day, and I know you truly get this idea of a buyer's journey.
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And more than that, just what it means to have a comprehensive journey that continues on past the sale and into the service side of the business.
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And I really want to dive into that a little bit today.
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But just to kick things off, can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself and also briefly mentioned your podcast as well.
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sure.
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Yeah.
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So,I I'm Justin Varuzzo and I am currently a Director of Marketing at a music company called Paul Effman Music.
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We essentially provide band programs and orchestral programs to private schools and Catholic schools, parochial schools across the nation actually, and it was a need that these schools can't afford full-time music instructors, a lot of them.
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So it's more or less like an outsourced band where we provide the instructor, the instruments, and the kids get to learn music.
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So it's a nice,
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That's very cool.
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Yeah.
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It's
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Feel good business.
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you know?
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I started very early on as a teacher I've been there for 20 years and then I've kind of worked my way up and now I do all of the marketing and we now have retail stores and we've grown a lot and gotten into a lot of different things over the years.
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So it's been a fun adventure.
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So I'm curious, you know, when you started up the Marketing and Service podcast, what was really the thought process behind that?
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Why did you focus on marketing and service together?
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Because typically you don't see that, even though I think we both realize how important it is.
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Yeah.
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So the thing that really led me down that road was that I started thinking to myself, what is the best service experience I've ever had?
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Because anyone who owns a business or runs a business, or if you're in marketing, it's good to kind of sit down and think about like, what are the good things that I've experienced in my personal life and how can I recreate that experience?
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I could think of In particular.
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And then I started thinking, well, lets start listing them all out.
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And number two probably took about 10 minutes to come up with.
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And I couldn't come up with a third one.
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So I started asking people around me, Hey, Eric, what's your best customer service?
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What's your second best?
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So almost nobody I've ever spoken to can actually name three times that they've had good customer service, which is insane in a world where we engage in dozens of transactions a day, right?
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You get your gasoline in the morning, you get your cup of coffee, you might go out somewhere for lunch, you go buy something at a store, you get a gift for your spouse.
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There's all these things that you could do.
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And the fact that in America, where all these companies say they're rooted in service, yet we can't come up with three examples of really being wowed and impressed by a nice service.
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So that kind of led me down this road of you know, that's something I think I'm a podcast about.
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You know, hopefully at the end, it'll make the world a little bit better of a place if just a few companies can work on their service a little bit.
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Well, I love the way you frame that because I bet if you switch that question around, you know, name three bad experiences that you've had this week, I bet people could explain three bad experiences they've had today.
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Yeah.
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we could go on for hours.
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Yeah.
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And it's sad because I think personally, I wonder why more businesses aren't learning because there is such a chance to differentiate yourself from the competition by delivering that service level that customers are clamoring for, but so many don't.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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They really don't.
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And the good news.
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It's an amazing opportunity for small businesses and medium sized businesses.
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Honestly, it's a big opportunity for big businesses too, but we know how in the bigger the business, the more bureaucracy and the harder it is to make those changes happen.
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But for small businesses, it really, is a nice differentiating opportunity for them to leverage, to grow their business and to grow better customer relationships, and really improve that entire customer experience because it's going to be in a lot of ways, a lot easier for a small business to do that and do it consistently than trying, having a mega corporation with, you know, thousands of support personnel and you know, marketers and sales staff, and trying to get them all on board.
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It's a much bigger challenge.
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So to play devil's advocate a bit, I can hear fellow marketers out in the audience saying, well, I agree with this.
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This makes a lot of sense, but Justin, I'm in marketing.
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I'm not in service.
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How can I affect service as a marketer?
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Yeah.
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So one of the biggest things is really having, especially in a bigger organization, a lot of organizations will have their marketing department, they'll have their sales department and they'll have their service department.
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And in so many companies, they really don't Interface with one another, right?
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There's like firewalls between them.
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And I think the more you can get those three elements together, and the more you have common goals and common strategies, and actually speak to one another, because I think we've all been in a position.
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If you're a sales person, you've certainly been in a position where you see a commercial for your own product and you think to yourself, that doesn't do that.
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Why are they advertising it like that?
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And if you're a service person, you've certainly been in a position where a salesperson has made a promise to a customer, and now a month later they're coming to you and you're saying, Hey, I don't know who told you that, But you know, that piece of equipment can't do that's not going to happen.
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So we see this all the time.
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And, you know, again at a small business level, it's really easy to get everyone on the same page.
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If you've got, you know, three or four technicians, you've got two or three salespeople.
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And you know, you got one guy in your marketing department, it's real easy to have that alignment.
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But as things scale, it becomes increasingly more difficult if it's not really addressed.
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And if that focus isn't around making sure that those three groups of people work together and cohesively with a.
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common goal, strategy, and plan to move forward.
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You know, listeners of this show know that I'm a big fan of HubSpot.
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And for many years, HubSpot was very much advocates of this whole idea of the buyer's journey.
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Which of course, we talk about a lot on the show, but when you talk about a buyer's journey, you tend to think of something that's fairly linear.
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And the reality is, people at HubSpot realized this several years ago that it's really not a linear progression.
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They termed, you know, flywheel.
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You know, it's a circular progression because a customer who buys your product and then need service for that product may come back and buy other things.
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And so it's this loop that gets created.
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What are your thoughts on that?
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So yeah, I love that you brought that up because the one thing is most businesses view service as an expense, right?
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They're not income generators, they're not the rainmakers in the business.
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But there is such a huge opportunity to turn that around.
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And they can be.
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For exactly the reason you just said.
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Someone has a problem, they come back.
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If service, I'm not saying replace the sales staff or the sales process, but if they're trained to a capacity where they can make recommendations and suggestions and cross sells and upsells at the time of service, it works.
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You know, they will generate revenue in a service call.
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And you just don't see that very often, and I'm not sure why.
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I mean, I have some ideas why.
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I mean obviously it's hard to train a customer service center with 500 operators to also be great salespeople.
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But you know, there's always that every time I've ever had a phone call with a client or a customer, and it's been a phone call that's been because of a problem.
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At some point in that conversation, we usually figure something out about how we can better provide that product or service to that customer.
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And they are usually happy to have what they need to make everything work.
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We're doing this podcast here, right?
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You've got the microphone, you've got this stand that the microphone is on, you've got it plugged into a computer.
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You need all those things for it to work.
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So if you went to a store and you said, I want to do a podcast and I want to buy this microphone and they just hand you the microphone and you leave, now you get home, you don't have what you need.
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And then you call service and say, well, how do I plug this thing in this?
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Oh, you need a cable.
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Are they actually capable of selling you the cable at that moment and say, Yeah, we have it.
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Let me put the order in for you and I'll get it to you.
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And a lot of times they don't.
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They're going to say, oh, let me transfer you to the sales department.
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And you know, then they start this whole cycle over again.
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It becomes a very frustrating experience.
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Well, and I think that everything gets mixed in together.
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How many times have you been online trying to purchase something and maybe there's a problem, there's an error, there's a question that you have about shipping or stock, and you need to call in.
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That's not necessarily an interaction with their sales department that may be an interaction with their service department, but it's pre-sale.
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You're actually helping that customer buy.
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And so the roles tend to meld together and get a little fuzzy.
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Yeah.
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So one of my favorite examples about that is way back when we were looking for a shipping solution and we basically wanted to get that tape that Amazon uses, right?
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The nylon reinforced tape, and it's water activated.
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I knew nothing, nothing about this at the time.
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But I knew that it was good tape and it would hold the box together.
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And I remember actually watching.
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videos on how it was used.
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These were post-sale.
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I mean they were designed for post support.
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If you bought this product, this is how you assemble it, right?
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And fast forward to today, now you see YouTubers with the unboxing videos and you know, this is like a thing.
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But if a company takes the moment to create the content, think about the power of that content.
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You showing an unboxing or an assembling or setup of a product or a service, you're going to be able to use that with your customers after you sell them.
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And they're going to be very happy that they have the support they need.
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But it's also going to be an acquisition tool because there's going to be people like me, who, one more in-depth curiosity about what it is.
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Well, how does this work?
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How does this thing work?
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How does that actually go together?
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How does it fit in into this workflow?
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Now you've got this great piece of content that you're going to use, it's going to be in the acquisition phase, you can use it in the support phase, and it's there and people will really appreciate it.
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And you're creating a better value in that journey.
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And like you said, if someone has an issue on your website, there's a technical issue, they need to easily be able to get past that and get in touch with somebody who can actually help them through, not just an IT tech support, that's not really gonna be able to offer them any help other than we'll work on the website or we'll open up a ticket for that.
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I think that's such an excellent point because when we talk about things like buyer's journey, it makes a little bit of an assumption that people are going to go step one, step two, step three.
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And that's not really the way it works.
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You may anticipate that somebody is going to come to your website, they're going to look at your product page, they're going to download a piece of collateral, they're going to read that, they're going to come back, they're going to follow up, they're going to fill out a contact form, but maybe they don't do that at all.
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Maybe they see, like you said, a YouTube video or somebody does a review or your product is mentioned in a blog article and they come in a different way.
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You can't necessarily anticipate all that.
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But in marketing, part of our job is to have all of that content available to them so that they can come in where they want and get exposed to the product the way they want.
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Yeah.
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If that marketing strategy is done right from the content perspective, you know, you always hear content is king.
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If you've got that strategy in place, those little snippets, they can be repurposed over and over and over.
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A great example I like to use is Dave Ramsey, financial guy, right?
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You You know, five, six baby steps.
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He's been touting that for 20 years and has built a billion dollar empire over literally six things you could write on a little napkin.
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Taking that same content and repurposing it over and over and over.
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And you know, a million different books and videos and seminars, but it's literally just these, you know, these little baby steps over and over again.
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And that is how we should kind of treat our marketing assets in the same way.
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How can we repurpose these to you know, one maximize our time as the marketer and as the company, and provide the best value to the customer at the same time.
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What's interesting too.
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About what you're saying there is that as you're repurposing this content, using it in different ways, or maybe you're having content that was created for another purpose, a post-sale how to video, or something like that.
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If you have analytics in place, if you're able to really do a good job of tracking how this information, this collateral might be used, you may spot a weakness in your marketing strategy that maybe you're not explaining your product well enough that people don't have all the information that they need from your marketing materials to be able to fully understand what your product or service does.
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So sometimes these other assets can give you real clues as to what you may need to adjust within your own marketing messaging.
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Yeah, to piggyback that, one of the things that I always do, I had a background in IT for a while, and whenever I'm looking at a new solution, something like HubSpot or whatever piece of software we might be looking into, the first place I always go are the user forums because that's where the truth is being told, right?
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I want to hear what are the actual customer experiences, not the marketing on the website, but what's in the back end here, like what's really going on?
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Are these people happy?
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Are they all complaining?
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You know, how's the service?
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Are they complaining?
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They can't get answers to questions.
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And you learn a lot about a company when you kind of see that back door of their product, and you see what the users are actually discussing.
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And you can certainly learn a lot of insights from that.
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And again, I think even in a small business, it's easy when you have 5, 6, 7 people working for those insights not to get back to you as the marketer or as the business owner, someone might call and say, Hey, this thing has XYZ problem.
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Oh, okay.
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Well, let me take a few minutes and we'll get this worked out.
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Next day, someone else gets that same call.
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Oh, it will take a few minutes and work this out.
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Next day, the third person gets that same call.
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But there's not really that cohesive strategy where any one person's going to come back and say, Oh hey, we're getting calls all the time on this one thing.
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But the solution could be a 30-second YouTube video that you shoot on your phone.
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And now not only you're going to cut your service time because now when you get that inquiry, you can just say, Hey, here's the video step-by-step instructions on how to do it.
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Thanks.
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Have a great day.
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You know looking at forums and looking at what people are saying is such an easy way, especially when they're common issues to say, Hey, okay, let's make a video about this.
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Let's put this somewhere that's easy to find, let's work on a little SEO on the service side of our content as opposed to the marketing and the acquisition side.
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Hey, it's Eric here and we'll be right back to the podcast.
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But first, are you ready to grow, scale, and take your marketing to the next level?
00:16:22.691 --> 00:16:29.050
If so, The Five Echelon Group's Virtual CMO consulting service may be a great fit for you.
00:16:29.321 --> 00:16:35.230
We can help build a strategic marketing plan for your business and manage its execution, step-by-step.
00:16:35.471 --> 00:16:38.020
We'll focus on areas like how to attract more leads.
00:16:38.290 --> 00:16:42.430
How to create compelling messaging that resonates with your ideal customers.
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How to strategically package and position your products and services.
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How to increase lead conversion, improve your margins, and scale your business.
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To find out more about our consulting offerings and schedule a consultation, go to fiveechelon.com and click on Services.
00:16:59.650 --> 00:17:00.910
Now back to the podcast.
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You know, another missed opportunity when it comes to service is I think a lot of service interactions are a great potential opportunity to sell the customer something else.
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I think about the example of a mobile phone, I've got an AT&T mobile phone.
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Well, believe me, if I didn't have an AT&T internet service, they would certainly ask me about it, right?
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They said, who are you using for your internet, right?
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They know that that's an upsell opportunity.
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But many times, if I go to a website of a vendor that I'm doing business with, I'm pounded constantly with messages that are completely out of context.
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It's every time I log in, they seem to want to sell me something.
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And I don't think is a really great time to do it because there's no context to it, you're just basically logging into the system.
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But sometimes when you have a service interaction, especially when you've solved a problem for the customer, and they're leaving that interaction with a positive view of your company, that's an ideal time to ask them some questions and see what else you might be able to do.
00:18:02.344 --> 00:18:42.854
Yeah, I'll say in my experience, the biggest advocates that we have, and the most brand loyal people that we have are the ones that had something go wrong, usually horribly wrong, and we were able to address it very quickly and do it in a way that they don't just have their problem solved, but they really become a brand ambassador after that, because the expectations, this is why I said at the beginning about that potential for small businesses where they can really exploit this, the expectations in America are so low with service that it almost takes no effort to win someone over forever simply by answering the phone.
00:18:43.403 --> 00:18:44.594
They don't even expect that.
00:18:44.683 --> 00:18:55.394
They expect they're going to wait on hold for at least 40 minutes and listen to music, so you answer the phone and you solve their problem in one phone call, it's like, you've just created one of those top three of their customer service experiences.
00:18:56.068 --> 00:18:56.489
That's right.
00:18:56.489 --> 00:19:02.668
And it's a perfect opportunity to see if you can meet another need of theirs, to see if there's a product or service that you have.
00:19:02.818 --> 00:19:06.358
That might be a good fit because that's a prime opportunity to sell them something.
00:19:06.538 --> 00:19:12.148
But what I see most businesses doing is taking it a prime opportunity to see if you'd complete a survey.
00:19:12.699 --> 00:19:12.999
Yeah.
00:19:13.568 --> 00:19:13.868
Yup.
00:19:14.058 --> 00:19:14.269
Yeah.
00:19:14.449 --> 00:19:20.918
The survey thing is really popular and I always wonder what happens to all data.
00:19:21.408 --> 00:19:25.088
It seems like an exchange too much based on the survey results.
00:19:25.408 --> 00:19:26.548
No, that's exactly right.
00:19:26.548 --> 00:19:40.918
It seems more like companies are eager to pat themselves on the back for doing a good job, rather than taking the opportunity to really build that advocacy with that customer or find a way that they could serve them with additional products or service.
00:19:42.038 --> 00:19:42.328
Yeah.
00:19:42.328 --> 00:20:00.564
The surveys are a drag and I feel like both on the consumer facing side and the business facing side, I personally had experiences where if you do take the time to fill out the survey, let's say you're on hold for 45 minutes, and then you get disconnected,, you call again, you're on hold for a half hour.
00:20:00.773 --> 00:20:09.278
Then you get someone who helps you and then it says, how has your overall experience?Let's say afour, because I had to call twice and was on hold for an hour and a half.
00:20:09.608 --> 00:20:12.439
And now that poor customer service person gets fired the next day.
00:20:13.519 --> 00:20:18.269
I've literally had someone call me and say, listen, you did this survey and it reflects poorly on me.
00:20:18.658 --> 00:20:20.158
And I said, I didn't say anything bad about you.
00:20:20.338 --> 00:20:22.408
Yeah, but the overall score has got to be a 10.
00:20:22.408 --> 00:20:24.418
If it's not a 10, I'll get in trouble.
00:20:24.894 --> 00:20:25.554
And it's like, all right.
00:20:25.554 --> 00:20:28.433
So obviously that's not the point of the survey.
00:20:28.433 --> 00:20:36.354
Like you know, no business should want that to be the tool that they use to manage their employees expectations of how they're performing, right?
00:20:36.564 --> 00:20:39.953
It could be an indicator, but these companies like they live and die by this.
00:20:39.953 --> 00:20:43.413
So it's got to be a 10, it's gotta be a five, whatever, whatever the perfect score is.
00:20:43.703 --> 00:20:48.783
And then you just get people who work at trying to get the perfect score and not trying to build the best relationship.
00:20:49.503 --> 00:20:49.713
Yeah.
00:20:49.713 --> 00:20:56.413
That's exactly right, after all in this relationship, you're the customer, you're the one who should be served, and they're more concerned with the results of the survey.
00:20:56.413 --> 00:21:00.074
I think it's a real missed opportunity for a lot of businesses.
00:21:00.253 --> 00:21:03.463
I think the same holds true for salespeople, you know?
00:21:03.463 --> 00:21:06.223
Salespeople take leads that are generated.
00:21:06.403 --> 00:21:12.713
They're trying to close that business, but they also have the opportunity to say, well, is there something else that we need for you?
00:21:12.713 --> 00:21:14.273
Did you pick the right product or service?
00:21:14.273 --> 00:21:16.344
Is there an upsell cross sell opportunity?
00:21:16.703 --> 00:21:27.533
And I often feel that a lot of those opportunities are missed to sacrifice, you know, maybe that longer-term relationship or the right product fit for a quick sale.
00:21:28.058 --> 00:21:28.388
Yeah.
00:21:28.388 --> 00:21:33.608
I mean, you, you mentioned the sales staff, uh, how many times have you called the company and you just don't get a call back.
00:21:33.969 --> 00:21:35.108
You want to buy something?
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