June 2, 2021
Using Immersive Customer Experience to Delight and Sell with Geoff Thatcher
In episode 74, host Eric Dickmann interviews Geoff Thatcher. Geoff is a writer, teacher, author, and Founder and Chief Creative Officer of Creative Principals. He is an experienced creative leader who knows how to take a project from concept to reality. For most of his career, these projects have been about world-class experiences such as the grand opening of Warner Bros. World Abu Dhabi and the American Airlines Museum. Whether it’s the world’s largest video dome on a beach in Dubai or the opening ceremonies of the Rio 2007 Pan American Games in Brazil’s Maracanā Stadium, Geoff’s work transcends borders.
He is a writer and teacher who once facilitated a leadership communication workshop at The CIA University (yes, that CIA). In 2020, he published his first book The CEO’s Time Machine that TD Magazine said: “is a great way to prepare your mindset going into conversations about how your business can navigate our new, uncertain world.”
For show notes and a list of resources mentioned in this episode, please visit: https://fiveechelon.com/using-immersive-customer-experience-delight-sell-s5e8/
Send us your questions or comments
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WEBVTT
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Welcome to the Oh podcast.
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How are you today?
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I'm good.
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You have me
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rocking out there?
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I was like, yeah,
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yeah.
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A little bit.
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Right.
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So get things going, get the juices flowing now.
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I'm doing great.
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Really glad you're here today.
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It's a bright, sunny day.
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I've got my, uh, sort of, I just think I need like a Cuban cigar or something like that.
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It's sort of in the, uh, in the spring mode, I guess.
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Well, I believe you're in Orlando, Florida, and I believe there are some nice cigar bars there,
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right?
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Yeah.
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There are a few nice cigar bars and you know, you just look down the road a little bit and Cuba's right down the street.
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So not too bad.
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I I'm excited because, well, number one, you and I met.
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Lunch club, which is kind of a fun new application.
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Uh, it's a great way.
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At least I've had some great experiences already meeting some really interesting people on that application.
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And you are my first guest actually from those meetings to be on the, the podcast.
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So welcome because of that.
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I am.
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I'm also really excited because we're going to delve into something that's really close to my heart and that's all around customer experience.
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And you are really an expert in these immersive customer experiences.
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So before we kick things off, I'd love it.
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If you could just share with the audience just a little bit about your background and what you do around the world of immersive customer experiences.
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Well, I'm lucky enough to have started in this industry as a 14 year old cleanup boy at a museum park.
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And, and so, uh, you know, really works, worked my way all through high school and college as a train engineer and a ride operator and a stage manager.
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And then transitioned that into working for a design firm that created theme park, attractions, museum exhibits, and corporate brand experiences.
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And I'm still doing it almost 40 years later.
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And we've worked on some really cool stuff around the world from, you know, The.
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Big opening ceremonies for Rio 2007 at the Pan-American games to a video dome on the beach in Dubai to the grand opening of Warner brothers world and Abu Dhabi and museums like the American airlines museum, uh, right here in the United States and Dallas Fort worth.
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So, so that's really what, uh, what my experience is all about and what we do it's about experiences and those experiences are primarily.
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Theme parks are entertainment, experiences, uh, museums, educational or cultural experiences, and finally brand experiences.
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You know, I love that living here in Orlando, obviously that's a big part of the culture down here, even though there's sort of a theme park side of town where a lot of that takes place.
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I think it trickles into everything.
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And a lot of businesses I think have up their game a little bit.
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To create better experiences, better atmospheres.
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And I'm so interested in your perspective on this, you know, we live in a world of so many distractions and it seems like it's harder and harder to catch people's attention.
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Do you find this as you're designing experiences for people that it just has to be non-stop because people's attention span is short and there's so many things competing for it.
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Well, you know, I would have probably said yes, yes.
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But then last week I was in Orlando and went to discovery Cove for the first time, a little bit
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different there.
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Right?
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Yeah.
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And, you know, discovery Cove was magical and it was way better than I thought it was going to be.
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I mean, I knew it was gonna be cool.
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I've been to SeaWorld a number of times aquatic.
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Uh, and I thought, well, let's go to, let's go to discovery Cove.
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And, um, You know, it was an escape and it was relaxing and there weren't very many distractions and we had a wonderful time.
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And so I think what discovery Cove, uh, approves and it is true is that it depends what people are looking for.
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And some people are looking for an escape in different ways.
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Some people want the nonstop rush of a theme park and other people want to slow down.
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What's ironic about all of this COVID stuff.
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And there was just an article the other day about this.
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And it's certainly what I'm hearing from people that I know that are involved with Disney and universal.
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And some of the major parks is the attendance restrictions, the capacity reductions, because of COVID.
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Is actually improving the experience for guests because they can slow down.
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I mean, it used to be a, so, so since the pandemic kit, we've done three days at universal in August, we did three days at Disney in November.
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We did SeaWorld at Christmas and then we just did a discovery Cove, um, just this last week and yes, we have to wear a mask and yes, there's social distancing.
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But it's more enjoyable because it's just not so crowded where you're not just feeling like you have to rush everywhere you go.
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And that's really nice.
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And the other thing that's happening, and again, I have this unofficially, so please don't quote me as an official source while attendance is down.
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The per cap spending the per capita spending is way
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up really.
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I wouldn't have expected that.
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Well, you know, and when I thought about it, when I was told this by a colleague of mine, I was like, well, that makes sense.
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This is, what do you mean?
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I said, well, when we went to universal ordinarily, when we go to universal, we're like running from rider ride or grabbing a hot dog on the go, maybe some popcorn, a berbere.
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And we're just, we're just pushing and pushing and trying to get everything in.
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But because.
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Of the pandemic.
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Things are a little more relaxed because it's not as crowded.
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And probably more importantly, the only time you can really take off your mask is when you sit down to eat.
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And so it's like, well, you know, Wearing a mask for 12 hours on a long day to theme park is a little annoying.
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I feel bad for the workers, but it's like, no, let's sit down and let's have a nice meal.
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So we went to mythos, which is one of the best restaurants in the industry.
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And we spent$200 on dinner.
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You know what I mean?
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We spent like 250.
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I can't remember it was, but we spent.
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More money on food, did the same thing at SeaWorld.
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We would have never gone into the fancy restaurant with the aquarium and the shark area, you know, right next to Maaco the new coaster.
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But we're like, you know what?
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Let's just sit down and rest relax.
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We've we, you know, it's not that big of a deal to rush around to the rides and.
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So, yeah, so attendance is down, but the get cussed, the guest, the customer experience is up because people are just enjoying the, the crowds being lighter.
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When you look to create a new experience, what are some of the factors that go into your thinking, your planning?
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Is it dealing with.
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All of the senses and how you're going to make an impact.
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Each one of those senses.
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Is it all about the theme of whatever you're trying to create or those two mesh together?
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What, what is the thinking process that goes into really creating a great immersive experience?
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Well, yes, to all those questions, uh, but more specifically, I really believe in formulas.
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Um, formulas work, uh, you know, uh, great films, for example, always have a, you know, an element of redemption to them, or, you know, a strong hero's journey art to it.
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And when it comes to attractions, it's all about story, story, and story.
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Uh, I mean, uh, I went to Hollywood studios and there's two new rides there in the star Wars land.
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Uh, and one is Smuggler's run, which is you fly the millennium Falcon.
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And one is rise to the resistance and rise.
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The resistance.
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The story is amazing.
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The experience is amazing.
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It's awesome.
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The technology is amazing.
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It's awesome.
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Smuggler's run.
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It's like a Michael Bay movie.
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I mean, yeah.
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They spent a ton of money on it.
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The special effects are great, it's awesome.
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But it's just kinda, eh, you know what I mean?
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It's just not as great.
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I think most people would confess that its not as great, but once you have that story, once you know what an experience is about, then you simply have to translate that experience through what we call the experience model.
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And I don't claim to have invented the experience model, it's existed for millennia, but it begins with, you have to attract people's attention.
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And so whatever you're doing, whatever your story is, what is it that's iconic about that story that's going to draw people into the experience?
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So having just been to Universal Studios and Islands of Adventure, what is the icon that draws people into to Hogsmeade and to Hogwarts?
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Well, it's the castle, it's this big icon of the castle that draws you in.
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Okay?
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Once you draw someone into the story, then you have to build trust.
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You have to build that trust.
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And again, let's use Universal Studios as an example.
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Trust is this authentic cue that walks you through Hogwarts castle, and when I went to that for the first time with my daughter, Zoe, who works for us now as an illustrator and designer, she was 14, and she said to me, she's a huge Harry Potter fan.
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And she said- Dad, this is legit.
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This is legit.
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So immediately you have that trust built.
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Then the third step in the experience model is you have to give them the information they need to move forward in the journey.
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It's informed.
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You have to inform them, you have to give them information.
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So you go into the pre-show, Harry, Ron, and Hermione come out in the Defense of the Dark Arts classroom, and they give you the information you need to move forward in that journey.
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And then fourth is really what it's all about.
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It's internalizing that emotion.
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It's really the thrill, it's the emotional impact, it's riding a broom, and its the ride itself.
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And then finally, you want people to do something.
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You want them to act.
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And all great theme park attractions obviously are about exiting through retail, because you want people to buy something.
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But the very best experiences involve you in the story.
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You become part of that story at the end.
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And so what's great about the Harry Potter attraction is you're standing there in the retail experience and you're seeing all these jerseys and you're like- Okay, which one of us is Hufflepuff?
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Which one of us is Gryffindor?
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Which one of us is Ravenclaw?
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Which one of us is Slytherin?
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You become part of the story.
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And now people always say- Oh, well that works for a theme park attraction joke, but I'm not sure it's going to work for a corporate brand experience or for a, you know, a museum.
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And I'm like, well, name it.
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I mean, again, I didn't work on the Holocaust Memorial in DC, but you probably cannot pick a more serious museum than the Holocaust Memorial attract.
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What draws you in the architecture, the aesthetic of this industrial.
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Complex that just has an emotional reaction and draws you in.
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Okay.
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How do you build trust?
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A series of exhibits that tell you the backstory of the Holocaust and antisemitism and the whole backstory of, of the rise of Nazi-ism okay.
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Information, small little video vignettes, little video theaters that give you the information you need on the Holocaust.
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Yeah, but it isn't until you're immersed in the tragic scale of the Holocaust.
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And you walk past the hundreds and thousands of shoes and all the family pictures.
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Once you're immersed in the scale of the Holocaust, the message internalizes, and it really hits you.
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And then you don't exit through retail.
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There you go into a rotunda.
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It's almost like a chapel.
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It's like, uh, a shrine, um, uh, And it's, it's almost, it's not a synagogue, but it's almost a little religious where you go into this burning flame.
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What do they want you to do?
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Resolve that this will never happen again.
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And that experience model works.
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Take it to a corporate brand experience.
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Take it to an event, take it to a speech, take it to a theme park you attract.
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You trust, you give them the information they need, you internalize the message and then you act, you get them to do something.
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And that's really the formula that works when you're creating experiences.
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You know, immediately what comes to mind are some failed experiences on a pretty large scale.
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So I think of Las Vegas, I think of Excalibur.
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I think of circus circus, these a huge big themed hotels, but there's no story.
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It's just a hotel with that looks like a medieval castle or a hotel that looks like a big circus tent.
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And I know that those are not the most popular hotels in Las Vegas anymore, but it strikes me because there really is no experience other than the architecture or what appears to be some kind of a story.
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But there really isn't a story that, that captures you in any way.
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Yeah.
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And I think the other examples that you see are projects where the architecture is dominant.
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Um, certainly there's a lot of museums where it's all about the architecture and you walk in and whenever you're having an experience where you're like confused, you're like, well, what.
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What am, what am I supposed to do next?
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And what is this about?
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And I, where do I go?
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And it feels disjointed that's because one, there's not a great story.
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And two, they didn't translate that story using that experience model.
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And, and, you know, it's really hard to stick to your guns when it comes to the story, because a story by its very nature is limiting.
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You know if you're, for example.
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Um, and again, I, I, I could talk about projects I did work on, but you know, some of my pro Well I'll talk about a project I worked on.
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So Warner Brothers World Abu Dhabi, I was the Creative Director for the grand opening of this huge, massive world's largest indoor theme park in Abu Dhabi.
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And the story there in its simplest form is about connecting with heroes and connecting with villains.
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And what would you prefer?
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You can connect with Wiley Coyote villain, or you can connect with the Road Runner hero.
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You can connect with Batman, hero, or you can connect with the Joker, a villain.
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You can connect with Bugs Bunny, hero, or you can connect with Daffy Duck, villain.
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I like Daffy.
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Is he a true villain?
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I'm not sure.
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But the whole experience is about connecting with heroes and villains.
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So if it's going to be a fantastic experience, you have to really limit yourself to celebrating heroes and villains, and that can be limiting.
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But when you limit yourself by focusing on the story, you create a much better experience.
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So obviously some of the examples that you cited there, whether they're the, uh, the theme parks or others, right.
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They have this great catalog of stories and characters that most people know and can relate to.
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So it makes that jump a little bit easier, but what if you're a company that sells computers or software, or, you know, you have a business that doesn't really have those kind of stories that kind of imagery in people's minds.
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How then do you create an experience that really moves people that gets people into the story?
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Yeah, again, I think it goes back to what the heart of the story is about.
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Um, you know, one of my favorite projects I ever worked on, and this was years ago was the Lockheed Martin space experience center.
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Okay.
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And what's the story for the Lockheed Martin space experience center, you know, after we did all the research, we came back and we said, well, really the story is about just how hard.
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Space travel is and working in space and sending satellites to space.
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And it's just really, really difficult.
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This is a really hard thing to do.
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I mean, the companies like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, and now space X make it look very easy, but it's really hard.
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It's really hard work to figure it all out.
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And so that's, that was our story.
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And then the second thing we did is we then started to translate that story into an experience.
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We came back with a very radical plan for them.
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And they had kind of envisioned, well, we would make it look like outer space.
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Like people would come in, it would be dark, there'd be fiber optic lights in the ceiling and all that stuff.
00:18:27.299 --> 00:18:31.889
And we're like, well, yeah, but we're like, none of your employees work in outer space.
00:18:32.430 --> 00:18:45.450
All of your employees work in these clean room environments and, you know, in Denver or Sunnyvale, California, where they're building satellites and GPS and the Hubble space telescope and all these amazing things.
00:18:45.450 --> 00:18:50.490
And so we created a, a museum like environment with.
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Basically, you know, light gray carpet, white walls, white ceiling, and really kind of created this white room environment for them.
00:18:59.079 --> 00:19:11.839
And, and that allowed us to take a story that, I mean, again, space travel was pretty cool, but again, I think you can take any company, any brand and make that story fundamental.
00:19:11.839 --> 00:19:14.210
I mean like accounting boy, how do I make accounting?
00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.049
Very interesting.
00:19:15.379 --> 00:19:17.240
Well, in the end, what is accounting about?
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:19.430
Accounting is about trust.
00:19:20.654 --> 00:19:25.305
And if you were to say to me, Hey, I'd like you to create a really great experience on trust.
00:19:25.754 --> 00:19:26.204
Yeah.
00:19:26.444 --> 00:19:35.504
I think you could create a really powerful experience on trust because in the end, what these big accounting firms do is about trust.
00:19:35.504 --> 00:19:43.154
Because if you can't trust a company's results and what they released to the public, that company's dead.
00:19:43.154 --> 00:19:45.914
We've seen example after example of that.
00:19:46.634 --> 00:19:49.394
And so trust is hugely important.
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:50.079
Hmm.
00:19:52.214 --> 00:19:56.775
Again, I mean, you could argue that some companies have more interesting stories than others.
00:19:56.835 --> 00:19:57.224
Sure.
00:19:57.404 --> 00:20:01.724
But I mean, look at animal kingdom, what is the story of animal kingdom?
00:20:01.875 --> 00:20:09.134
Uh, Joe Rody, the imaginer who designed it would say, and he has said in his public speeches, it's the intrinsic value of nature.
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That's what it's about.
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