Nov. 9, 2020

5 Simple Search Engine Optimization Hacks for Small Businesses with Jeff Baker

5 Simple Search Engine Optimization Hacks for Small Businesses with Jeff Baker
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Season 3

In this episode, host Eric Dickmann interviews Jeff Baker. Jeff is the CMO of Brafton and a passionate expert on SEO. He helps clients grow their website traffic and create compelling content to rank on Google. Jeff is a featured writer on SEO and has many useful articles on Moz. He is currently a digital nomad and travels the world with other passionate professionals.

Jeff is also a podcaster and hosts “Above the Fold”; where he has conversations with top industry leaders.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/above-the-fold-a-content-marketing-podcast/id1413932916

Read Jeff's article on Moz: https://moz.com/blog/7-search-ranking-factors-analyzed-follow-up-study

Eric Dickmann can be found on Twitter @EDickmann and LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/edickmann and my website https://ericdickmann.com

Jeff Baker can be found online at Brafton or on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/bakerseo/

Episode Summary: The episode summary can be found at https://fiveechelon.com/search-engine-optimization-small-business-s3e7/

If you'd like to contact us with feedback or guest inquiries, please visit:
https://fiveechelon.com/podcast

For more information about Virtual CMO strategic marketing consulting services, visit The Five Echelon Group at https://fiveechelon.com

Episode #38

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WEBVTT

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The Virtual CMO podcast is sponsored by the strategic marketing consulting services of The Five Echelon Group.

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If you’d like to work directly with The Five Echelon Group and receive personal coaching and support to optimize your business, enhance your marketing effectiveness and grow your revenue, visit Five Echelon.com to learn more and schedule a free consultation.

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Welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast.

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I'm your host, Eric Dickmann.

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In this podcast, we have conversations with marketing professionals who share the strategies, tactics, and mindset you can use to improve the effectiveness of your marketing activities and grow your business.

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This week, I'm excited to welcome Jeff Baker to the podcast.

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Jeff is an accomplished SEO expert and digital marketer.

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He is also the chief marketing officer at one of the world's largest content marketing agencies.

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Brafton.

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Jeff has built an impressive list of accomplishments in his 10 years of digital marketing is passion is making SEO accessible to everyone in a way that's unintimidating and fun.

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He likes to share his knowledge on his own podcast, Above The Fold.

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Jeff has also a digital nomad and has some really great practical SEO tips for you today Jeff welcome to The Virtual CMO podcast.

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I'm so glad you could join us today.

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Hi, thanks for having me, looking forward to it.

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So I wanted to start out and understand what is the wifi tribe.

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So I'm part of a company called wifi tried and what it is, it's a community of people that are all remote workers in some sense, like a lot of them are.

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Our developers lends itself well to that.

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Some people are marketers such as myself, we even have a brain surgeon who works remote.

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We have a lawyer that works for mode as well.

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It's just people that are location independent, and don't have to go into a, like a nine to five typical building.

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They come, they can work remote.

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They could work online and that's me basically.

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So the way it works is that this company will set up what they call chapters.

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So every month there are different locations around the world that you can sign up for.

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So for example, this is pretty pandemic obviously, but for example, we've got August coming up and you'd be able to slice from Lisbon or Rio or Bolivia or somewhere in Mexico.

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And.

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What you get is you get a month long experience with other similarly minded people, remote workers.

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you got accommodations, nice housing and guaranteed good internet.

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And you have a normal workweek.

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You go and work with those people.

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get inspired because they're from different backgrounds and they're all just naturally curious about this kind of stuff.

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And, on weekends you explore.

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The new place that you're in.

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So for example, last year it was a Columbia.

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I did Bolivia, Costa Rica, Mexico, and a little bit of Paraguay.

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So on the weekends, you get to go out and meet the locals and see all the local, all the local stuff.

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So let's just a fun way to work and travel.

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That's so interesting because you're now the second guest that I've had on that has been part of a similar organization that basically sets up this digital nomad experience, but take some of the work out of it and being able to provide you a place in the connectivity.

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It sounds really awesome because.

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Being a digital nomad I think is going to be increasingly popular, especially now that we've gone through COVID and more people have started to experience remote work.

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How has that been for you at Brafton?

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has the company really adopted remote work for its workers?

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For the most part, we can do everything that we need to do remote.

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Probably always have been, but there's this shifting mindset, especially all across the world now, especially, but with Brafton over the past, Five years or so seeing that everything that we need to do, we can get done online.

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We are a content marketing agency.

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Would your digital marketing and content marketing.

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So there's very few things are required to be on location.

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Visiting clients, you can do that over zoom.

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Now I'm writing content.

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You're always able to do that over the web, doing podcasts and do that over the web.

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And, I think a lot of companies are looking at it like, yes, it is.

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It is nice to have a physical location where maybe you get like a shared workspace or something, but is it really necessary to spend all that money?

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look at downtown San Francisco rent.

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That's the closest major city I lived next to.

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You could be paying$100,000 a month upwards.

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but for what you know, like.

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You get, I'm sure you get to some of that in person comradery and all that stuff, but you could get that out of a shared workspace for one fifth, the cost and get your job done just as well, if not better or working from home because you're not distracted, not screwing around a lot, I think we're very similar to most companies that are realizing, Hey, we can actually manage remote.

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Pretty damn well.

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I think one of the, Drawbacks that some companies have felt about having a remote workforce is, how can I watch them?

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How can I monitor?

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How can I make sure that they're being productive?

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In your own work, how have you adapted to, moving around, being in different places and finding that time during the day to be productive?

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For me, it's It was specifically when I'm on a chapter on wifi tribe, I'm surrounded by professionals.

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These people work a lot.

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This is a group of strong work ethic people.

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And that just creates that environment where, when you're around these people, you want to work more.

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You want to.

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You want to impress and you're inspired because other people are doing other things.

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From a remote's work standpoint.

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It's not a problem for me.

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Usually the problem that we experienced as digital nomads is not knowing when to turn it off because it's just so accessible.

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Go to an office.

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You get that physical distance between you and home.

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You're in work mode and the same thing.

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When he come off, come home, you shut it off.

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You get on the train and you shut it off mentally.

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When you got your computer sitting in the other room, it's just too easy to access.

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So I'd say that the main problem is knowing when to when and how to set those types of boundaries.

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And it's something that the whole, the digital nomad community, we talked to a lot of these people and they have the same types of issues.

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They have to send some sort of boundaries, but they don't just work themselves into a stupor.

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I'm a big believer in work life balance.

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And I think one of the things I appreciate about somebody who's got a digital nomad life is you get a chance to get out and experience different cultures, different, attitudes towards business and work life.

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Have you found that you've really been able to take things back into, your own personal work ethic based on your travels and the things that you've seen and experienced another.

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Cultures.

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Okay.

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Spend the most meaningful thing that I've ever done is sign up for this and travel and work, for a number of different.

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From a business perspective.

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Absolutely.

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Just the inspiration that you get from other people I'm teaching other people, SEO, I'm worth other people.

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And we We'll do a skill share.

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if you're adept in a particular area, you can share that with other people and give them like a training course, like a introductory training course.

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And it's, um, makes you think of new ways.

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I think you understand your skill set and much better when you're forced to teach it.

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So I've taught this so many times that I've gotten better at teaching and it's making my writing better.

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so from that standpoint, it's been helpful.

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It's also helpful in talking with people in different.

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And with different skill sets, they do the same thing.

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And you're inspired in your job thinking, Oh my God, I've got, there's so much more potential.

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And web design, you know, I'm working with a web designer, hanging out with a web designer every day and they got these new insights and you're like, okay, I can use this in my company immediately.

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So from a professional standpoint, it's been very good, but also from a personal standpoint, I don't think there's many things more valuable than, embracing other cultures and learning about other cultures.

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it makes the world.

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A little bit smaller and less scary.

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The more you experience other people in different, like very different cultures.

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good examples.

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I was in Bolivia and you wouldn't think this, but you go to Bolivia and he walked down the street and everyone's wearing old bowler caps.

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Mostly the women wearing old bowler caps.

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What is that?

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What is that all about?

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It's so unusual.

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And come to find out, Europe accidentally sent a huge shipment of bowler caps.

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They sent it to the wrong place and landed somewhere in Bolivia and they all loved him.

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And so it turned into a fashion for over a hundred years, almost 200 years.

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Now people started wearing bowler caps because of an accidental.

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A ship accidentally landed near the Olivia and brought him up there.

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these are things that you just wouldn't learn, having.

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If you're not traveling and experiencing these cultures and really, getting a feel and empathy for different.

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Different people, different cultures.

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So it's been incredible for me.

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Like it's, I wish I would've done it sooner.

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It's crazy.

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I think the statistic here in the States is totally like something around 10% of the population has a passport.

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it's a very small number.

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It's a very small number.

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I won't be towns.

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Yeah.

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that's fascinating.

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There's so much to see out there.

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So I know, uh, your day job is, is Brafton.

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You're the chief marketing officer there.

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Talk a little bit about how you got there and what your role is, uh, at Brafton.

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Yeah.

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So I, like I said, I'm the chief marketing officer at Brafton and I started back there.

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A long time.

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It's almost about eight years ago.

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I started as like a content strategist would be the equivalent of what it is today.

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So working with clients.

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Looking at their website and, determining what types of content to create from an SEO standpoint, from a reader standpoint.

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It was, um, just typical account management work.

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You're doing some strategy, your, Trying to keep your clients happy.

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That whole thing.

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and I took, I immediately took an interest in SEO.

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That was like a side part of the job, learning how to do web analytics and SEO.

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But for me, that just clicked, you have one of these things in your life every now and then.

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Somebody gets some sort of skill that just makes sense.

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Like you just, you see it.

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Like artwork.

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And that always happened with me with SEO.

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It just made sense.

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So I just kept pushing along that vein.

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And, started learning more and more about it.

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And Brampton was great.

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Cause.

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They carved out specific roles for me, where I could do SEO related stuff.

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And eventually I moved out of the client work.

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I haven't talked to a client quite a long time.

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And, I started working internally for the brand and specifically doing a lot of the SEO work type of stuff.

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And then over the past three years, I've Stuck with SEO because that's my baby.

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That's my passion.

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I love it.

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But, it's moved into more of a broad, like general, marketing type of role, a typical marketing type of role, as you would think of it.

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Email campaigns, SEO content, all that kind of stuff.

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So that was pretty much the evolution, but the through line really here as always been SEO has always been web analysts.

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Cause that's been my real fascination.

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Since the beginning.

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I've been looking forward to this conversation because I really wanted to drill into some SEO ideas and talk a little bit about strategies that you found are working.

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So one of the questions that I have is, SEO is evolving, Google changes their algorithms, but it is the Holy grail of marketing, It's content that.

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Gets exposed and people find it without you necessarily having to pay for any advertising to get people there.

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But there are all these rules on what works and what doesn't work.

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For example, I see out there that they say, if you're going to do a blog post, you want it to rank.

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It should be somewhere in the 1700 word.

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Range, but then you go and you look for certain keywords and you see what the top ranking pages are.

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And they're these short little articles, they're you know, a couple hundred words at best.

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Is there really a rule?

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For content length.

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No, there's not as a matter of fact, Should we go on a tirade shold we.

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Should we do this?

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I would say the majority of things that you hear about SEO are.

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Wrong.

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For the most part and over complicated.

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Alright.

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So if we think about SEO, what it, wasn't the first thing that comes to mind when I say SEO, like what concept comes to mind?

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Keyword rankings, organic content.

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Yeah.

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So a lot of it is, I think that's probably a better starting point, but when you say SEO too, A lot of people.

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a lot of people Freeze up a lot of small business owners, one person organization to say SEO to them.

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If they don't have a background in it immediately is an overall overwhelmed white washing on their face.

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They're just.

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Terrified.

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It's it's almost like, you know, bringing your car to the mechanic.

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You have no idea what is wrong with your car and you're stressing the mechanics going to tell you something that's truthful.

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Same thing with SEO.

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I talked to a lot of small business owners and.

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They don't know the first thing about it and they just get overwhelmed when they assume it's going to be way over-complicated over their head and they're going to need some sort of specialist, to help them do it very technical.

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They always think it's very technical.

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Truth of the matter is that we SEO is this whole SEO community as over complicated.

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SEO to a point where it's almost like a black box to most.

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To most people, to most specifically, small business owners.

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Which is definitely untrue and it also doesn't help.

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Doesn't help it.

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so the way I look at it is SEO.

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This is something that can absolutely be done.

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By anybody by any small business owner, anybody that's trying to get their business off the ground can absolutely do it.

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The problem is just overlooking the over complication that has been put out there by my people in this market.

00:13:11.172 --> 00:13:12.751
Yeah, let me explain here.

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Mostly what people hire SEOs to do.

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If you've got a small business owner, it happens all the time.

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They're going to try to find some SEO vendor.

00:13:21.131 --> 00:13:26.375
And what you're going to get is an SEO vendor that does a lot of technical SEO things.

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They're going to throw a technical SEO.

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It's a whole sub sect of.

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Search engine optimization and that's about 95% of what's taught go out there and search SEO.

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You're going to tell you how to do title tags, metadata, all kinds of things that usually frees people up and they think I can't do this kind of thing.

00:13:43.306 --> 00:13:43.605
right.

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That's about 95% of it out there.

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And that's about 95% of what you're going to pay for.

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Problem is, these are a set of rules.

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Like most of what you see out there you read about, and most of what you get, these are a set of rules that basically.

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Is tech is actually SEO and it will keep your website running, but it really does nothing for your performance.

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So if you're a small business owner and you want.

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To get more traffic.

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You want to get more traffic?

00:14:10.105 --> 00:14:11.395
Cause he want to make more sales.

00:14:12.025 --> 00:14:18.145
Doing technical SEO and working with these SEO agencies, 95% of the time, we'll probably do nothing.

00:14:18.806 --> 00:14:25.706
Because technical SEO is basically just keeping the cars, the tires on your car.

00:14:25.735 --> 00:14:30.775
If I can use an analogy, pretend that, your website is a car and the SEO are the tires.

00:14:31.015 --> 00:14:31.285
All right.

00:14:31.916 --> 00:14:37.196
Replacing the tires will never make your car faster, but a pop tire we'll slow it down.

00:14:37.865 --> 00:14:42.546
Google has a website analysis tool, That gives you a score zero to 100.

00:14:42.796 --> 00:14:45.885
Red, yellow, green, how your website is performing.

00:14:46.426 --> 00:14:50.056
Is that where technical SEO is going to show up?

00:14:50.456 --> 00:14:57.385
Generally that's 99% of the time when you use one of these tools and it tells you is your site SEO optimized.

00:14:57.625 --> 00:15:02.186
That's what it's doing is going through these technical components and it's going through a diagnostic checklist.

00:15:02.605 --> 00:15:03.775
Are you doing with this, and this?

00:15:04.225 --> 00:15:11.066
If the answer was yes, then everybody feels good because your website is SEO optimized from a technical standpoint.

00:15:11.066 --> 00:15:11.336
Yeah.

00:15:11.395 --> 00:15:12.505
That's what you're going to find out there.

00:15:12.535 --> 00:15:13.375
That's exactly right.

00:15:14.275 --> 00:15:15.145
Oh, promise.

00:15:15.176 --> 00:15:16.556
That's not going to do anything for you.

00:15:16.586 --> 00:15:23.245
Basically, if you break one of these rules, it's going to just prevent your site from doing what it ought to do.

00:15:23.796 --> 00:15:26.946
So if all of these things are not broken, then, okay.

00:15:26.946 --> 00:15:28.655
You're a baseline that your cars cruising.

00:15:28.655 --> 00:15:29.855
You have no flat tires.

00:15:30.155 --> 00:15:32.076
It's not going to make your website any better.

00:15:32.105 --> 00:15:33.936
It's not going to drive you any more traffic.

00:15:34.028 --> 00:15:40.938
What's going to do that is good keyword research and then writing really good content the right way.

00:15:41.509 --> 00:15:42.918
That is what drives traffic.

00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:54.089
And fortunately, this is a lot more accessible, to people that don't do SEO, like the classical SEO talking about like technical, SEO, metadata, all that kind of stuff.

00:15:54.428 --> 00:16:00.548
So in theory, you could set up a website where you just follow this very basic set of rules.

00:16:00.938 --> 00:16:06.609
That you just use the analogy it's like going to Google and saying is my website, SEO optimized.

00:16:06.788 --> 00:16:07.989
That's just a set of rules.

00:16:08.019 --> 00:16:12.339
Like making sure Google can find your pages, making sure you haven't broken anything.

00:16:13.058 --> 00:16:20.889
And then go into the real part that actually drives traffic to your site, which is really good keyword research.

00:16:21.068 --> 00:16:22.538
And then really good content writing.

00:16:23.438 --> 00:16:29.269
When you do those two that's 95% of the results is keyword research and really good content writing.

00:16:29.839 --> 00:16:37.818
The other part, the thing that everybody worries about is just a set of checklist items to make sure that people can find the content.

00:16:38.239 --> 00:16:39.918
And the keywords that you researched.

00:16:40.249 --> 00:16:40.428
All right.

00:16:40.458 --> 00:16:43.759
So it's almost like a mismatch of priorities here.

00:16:44.269 --> 00:16:44.688
Really.

00:16:45.089 --> 00:16:45.568
That makes sense.

00:16:45.958 --> 00:16:47.428
yeah, it does make perfect sense.

00:16:47.428 --> 00:16:55.318
So you want to have the technical SEO stuff, But you don't want to overly focus on that because that's ultimately not going to get you found it just could.

00:16:55.578 --> 00:17:00.109
Maybe be a hindrance if you've got the other content where it needs to be.

00:17:00.546 --> 00:17:00.785
Yeah.

00:17:00.846 --> 00:17:07.415
If you focus on the technical SEO and you've already checked off the minimum checklists, for the most part, you're going to be fine.

00:17:07.895 --> 00:17:09.729
It's is mainly.

00:17:09.756 --> 00:17:16.415
Yeah, like a diagnostic checklist and usually what happens is you create a problem.

00:17:16.806 --> 00:17:17.375
On the site.

00:17:17.685 --> 00:17:22.736
So if you a good example, you take a very bare bones website with nothing on it.

00:17:22.736 --> 00:17:25.226
You've got four pages, right?

00:17:25.256 --> 00:17:30.266
And then you've got maybe a tiny little bit of content that is a perfect se optimized page.

00:17:30.596 --> 00:17:32.395
You haven't created any problems yet.

00:17:32.846 --> 00:17:33.596
You start.

00:17:33.625 --> 00:17:34.226
Perfect.

00:17:34.375 --> 00:17:36.566
And then you just layer problems on.

00:17:36.865 --> 00:17:44.151
So if you've got this set of rules that, you know, as you're building out your website, You will never need any of those technical SEO services.

00:17:44.181 --> 00:17:52.840
All you ever need really is to know how to write content and how to, How to do some decent keyword research so that you can drive traffic to your site.

00:17:53.239 --> 00:17:55.699
it's a lot more simple than people think it is.

00:17:56.056 --> 00:18:00.915
Well, a lot of things that I see; commented on are on the technical SEO side.

00:18:00.925 --> 00:18:06.145
the speed of your website, how fast it loads and it's mobile friendliness.

00:18:06.455 --> 00:18:11.016
whether it works on mobile, do you put those things in that technical SEO bucket?

00:18:11.415 --> 00:18:17.056
I would, yeah, there's a few things in there that should be paid attention to you could not knowing anything about SEO.

00:18:17.296 --> 00:18:21.405
Go through this diagnostic checklist and that's one mobile, mobile speed.

00:18:21.715 --> 00:18:22.736
mobile friendliness.

00:18:22.766 --> 00:18:23.635
Yeah, definitely.

00:18:23.645 --> 00:18:24.665
those are important things.

00:18:24.996 --> 00:18:26.435
Can your content be index?

00:18:26.526 --> 00:18:27.665
That's an important thing.

00:18:28.016 --> 00:18:34.306
Do you have a ton of Redirecting pages like you accidentally moved your page and then you moved it again.

00:18:34.605 --> 00:18:36.256
And got Google hopping back and forth.

00:18:36.615 --> 00:18:42.586
They're all things that you just go through a checklist without knowing anything about SEO and see, Oh, okay.

00:18:42.645 --> 00:18:44.115
Accidentally see this thing.

00:18:44.645 --> 00:18:46.296
I should probably fix that.

00:18:46.596 --> 00:18:49.145
And then once you've checked that off the box, you're good.

00:18:49.205 --> 00:18:49.506
Like you're.

00:18:49.685 --> 00:18:52.266
Your site's clean and then you just focus on writing.

00:18:52.296 --> 00:18:52.925
Good content.

00:18:53.125 --> 00:18:56.246
Talk a little bit about this idea of domain score.

00:18:56.276 --> 00:18:57.746
What is it and how do you get it?

00:18:58.145 --> 00:19:04.395
So generally this is referred to as domain authority and that's a metric used by Moz.

00:19:04.425 --> 00:19:08.056
Moz is like one of the most reputable SEO companies out there.

00:19:08.086 --> 00:19:11.145
They make tools and they write articles.

00:19:11.195 --> 00:19:14.076
People contribute articles to it, advanced SEO types of stuff.

00:19:14.496 --> 00:19:16.145
They have a metric called domain authority.

00:19:16.625 --> 00:19:24.576
And what this is meant to do is it's meant to be a relative score for your website and basically tells you how authoritative is your website.

00:19:24.996 --> 00:19:26.945
Versus another website in the eyes.

00:19:26.945 --> 00:19:28.655
So you'd have one website.

00:19:28.655 --> 00:19:30.336
That's a 45 domain authority.

00:19:30.395 --> 00:19:31.746
Now the one that's a 65.

00:19:32.266 --> 00:19:33.675
So that should tell you that.

00:19:34.276 --> 00:19:40.576
The 45 website is relatively less authoritative than the 65 website.

00:19:41.096 --> 00:19:44.145
if you want to audit and you want to see where you stand against your competitors.

00:19:44.506 --> 00:19:48.215
That would tell you, you are behind your competitor in terms of authority.

00:19:49.026 --> 00:19:56.986
And the leap that you can make from there is that if you were trying to rank for the same keyword against that website, You would struggle.

00:19:57.226 --> 00:20:04.425
You'll be punching a little bit of, but above your weight class, because there are more reputable website in the eyes of Google, and you're going to struggle to do that.

00:20:05.159 --> 00:20:08.729
Uh, An important thing to note is there's no good or bad domain authority.

00:20:08.729 --> 00:20:10.739
People always ask me that what's a good one.

00:20:10.739 --> 00:20:11.459
What's a bad one.

00:20:11.999 --> 00:20:13.288
It's a relative scale.

00:20:13.378 --> 00:20:14.368
There's only good.

00:20:14.969 --> 00:20:17.308
Compared to your competitors that you're going up against.

00:20:17.368 --> 00:20:18.898
There's only bad going up.

00:20:19.558 --> 00:20:21.449
Compared to the competitors that you're going up against.

00:20:22.028 --> 00:20:30.338
So if all your competitors are at 80 and you're in 60, when you've got a bad domain authority, but if you're a 69 competitors or a 30, and you've got a good domain authority.

00:20:30.999 --> 00:20:35.229
So for many smaller businesses, their domain authority might be zero, right?

00:20:35.229 --> 00:20:37.148
They might not have any domain authority yet.

00:20:37.148 --> 00:20:38.409
So how do you build it?

00:20:38.409 --> 00:20:41.919
What are the factors that go into moving that number up?

00:20:42.508 --> 00:20:44.788
There's 40 different factors over 40 different factors.

00:20:44.867 --> 00:20:45.917
Built into the equation.

00:20:46.458 --> 00:20:57.107
The majority of it is links like, so on linq is any website that sends a hyperlink back to your website, which is in essence, it's a vote of confidence.

00:20:57.137 --> 00:20:58.097
it's a vote that says.

00:20:58.428 --> 00:21:00.407
This website is reputable.

00:21:00.708 --> 00:21:01.607
According to me.

00:21:02.238 --> 00:21:12.228
So the number of those links that point back to your website and the quality of those links are huge determinants to Google and says, all right, basically all of these websites.

00:21:12.758 --> 00:21:14.258
have voted their confidence.

00:21:14.657 --> 00:21:16.097
In this County and this website.

00:21:16.557 --> 00:21:18.778
So that sends a signal to Google that, okay.

00:21:18.807 --> 00:21:22.258
Maybe these guys are authorities in their space.

00:21:22.857 --> 00:21:24.387
And especially if you're getting.

00:21:24.897 --> 00:21:26.038
Quality links.

00:21:26.087 --> 00:21:34.008
If you're a, you got a website and you're getting links from Forbes and Wall Street Journal, those carries so much more weight than, Some.

00:21:34.188 --> 00:21:38.057
A tiny little blog with a tiny domain authority link to you a thousand times.

00:21:38.597 --> 00:21:40.637
That may carry the same weight.

00:21:40.637 --> 00:21:45.107
One link from a Forbes might be the same as a thousand mediocre links.

00:21:45.417 --> 00:21:47.038
So that's the major factor.

00:21:47.154 --> 00:21:50.934
the name of the game is not to increase your domain authority.

00:21:51.025 --> 00:21:53.575
Domain authority is just a metric to let you know where you are.

00:21:54.025 --> 00:21:55.164
Increase your domain authority.

00:21:55.164 --> 00:21:59.805
Does that mean you're gonna increase your keyword rankings or your traffic or anything like that?

00:22:00.015 --> 00:22:04.305
That just gives you a sense of domain authority gives you a sense of where you stand.

00:22:04.605 --> 00:22:06.164
And your potential to rank.

00:22:06.884 --> 00:22:08.234
So it's not a goal.

00:22:08.295 --> 00:22:10.065
It's not an end goal in of itself.

00:22:10.095 --> 00:22:11.835
It's just more of a measurement of how you're doing.

00:22:12.234 --> 00:22:19.224
So again, keeping in mind sort of small or midsize businesses, maybe businesses that haven't built up, that kind of domain authority.

00:22:19.615 --> 00:22:28.615
One of the things that I have seen with various is SEO agencies is that they come in and they say, okay, we're going to get you to rank for a bunch of key words.

00:22:28.795 --> 00:22:40.464
And so they go out and they built some content that eventually gets ranked, but it's a bunch of key words or long tail phrases that have nothing really to do with the business.

00:22:40.464 --> 00:22:42.355
Their search volume is very low.

00:22:42.865 --> 00:22:46.494
But the agency can come back and say, Oh, look, you're number one for this, and this.

00:22:46.525 --> 00:22:47.545
We've got your number one.

00:22:47.545 --> 00:22:57.654
And 50 different keywords is that sort of a game or is that a real strategy to start building up that authority or to start building up those backlinks

00:22:57.994 --> 00:22:58.775
probably both.

00:22:58.942 --> 00:22:59.481
Really.

00:22:59.617 --> 00:23:01.508
SEO is still the wild West.

00:23:01.567 --> 00:23:01.867
Really?

00:23:01.917 --> 00:23:02.758
there's no oversight.

00:23:02.758 --> 00:23:03.627
There's no regulations.

00:23:03.657 --> 00:23:07.978
There's no real standard for what qualifies as good SEO.

00:23:08.307 --> 00:23:13.377
Now we talked before about this, the technical SEO side of things, where you find 95% of the work goes into.

00:23:14.127 --> 00:23:19.938
You could have an SEO agency that you hire and they go through this diagnostic checklist and they check off every one of those boxes.

00:23:19.938 --> 00:23:23.228
And technically they did SEO and your website.

00:23:23.407 --> 00:23:25.117
We'll probably not gain any others.

00:23:25.688 --> 00:23:30.137
Additional traffic, so technically that is SEO and they did their job.

00:23:30.377 --> 00:23:34.968
Same thing with this instance that you just talked about, where they get your website to rank for some keywords.

00:23:35.538 --> 00:23:37.938
Why not be helpful keywords, but they did their job.

00:23:37.968 --> 00:23:40.998
They got you to rank for keywords might not help you at all.

00:23:41.238 --> 00:23:42.228
This is very prevalent.

00:23:42.258 --> 00:23:47.617
It's an unregulated industry where you're just Again, It's worse than bring your car into the mechanic.

00:23:47.617 --> 00:23:49.718
At least the mechanics expect to get car running again.

00:23:49.988 --> 00:23:51.728
This may not get your car running again.

00:23:52.248 --> 00:23:55.698
so to your point, this does happen.

00:23:55.758 --> 00:23:57.827
And the reason why is because it's still.

00:23:58.488 --> 00:24:02.028
I see how it's been around 15, 20 years, but it's still in the grand scheme of things.

00:24:02.057 --> 00:24:03.228
It's an emerging industry.

00:24:03.288 --> 00:24:11.298
People don't know how to quantify it, but I don't know how to measure quality yet because most of the people that are hiring SEOs are just taking their word for it.

00:24:11.542 --> 00:24:18.053
So when you rank for a bunch of unrelated keywords or keywords that have really no search volume.

00:24:18.472 --> 00:24:23.752
You're really not doing anything to help you on those key words that do matter.

00:24:24.153 --> 00:24:24.633
Not really?

00:24:24.663 --> 00:24:25.022
No.

00:24:25.472 --> 00:24:26.163
it looks good.

00:24:26.262 --> 00:24:28.992
I could show you the number of ways that you could.

00:24:29.387 --> 00:24:35.178
It's very easy to manipulate data and Google analytics is where you probably do a lot of your reporting to show.

00:24:35.401 --> 00:24:41.770
to show the gains that you've made, you can adjust timeframes a little bit and you turn that red number and do a green number.

00:24:42.050 --> 00:24:42.921
You can.

00:24:43.431 --> 00:24:45.980
Get keywords that are not important to rank.

00:24:46.010 --> 00:24:53.090
And you can just have that show up on your, your SCM rush or your SEO tool that shows that you made some gains, but you didn't make any.

00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:56.631
Financial gains for the customer and really that's what it comes down to you.

00:24:56.661 --> 00:24:57.711
When you're doing SEO.

00:24:58.131 --> 00:25:02.990
Your number one focus should always be, is this action tied to revenue in some.

00:25:03.471 --> 00:25:04.310
Way, shape or form.

00:25:04.911 --> 00:25:10.790
So really what a good SEO should do, and there's a lot of good SEO is out there and I've been a little bit rough in this conversation.

00:25:10.971 --> 00:25:11.780
It's a lot of good SEO.

00:25:11.810 --> 00:25:12.560
SEO is out there.

00:25:12.980 --> 00:25:15.260
Where they're going to try to do is focus on two main areas.

00:25:15.290 --> 00:25:17.451
One is the commercial side of your website.

00:25:17.780 --> 00:25:20.631
So you got a website that sells widgets, right?

00:25:20.681 --> 00:25:27.080
You've got a homepage and then you've got maybe five different widget pages, So they should do SEO work to find keywords.

00:25:27.471 --> 00:25:32.151
That people are searching where their intent is due by this particular widget.

00:25:32.540 --> 00:25:34.911
Let's use Brafton's website as an example.

00:25:35.510 --> 00:25:38.090
People are looking for content, right?

00:25:38.510 --> 00:25:46.361
I want to find a keyword that people are going to use, to find services where they're going to buy those services.

00:25:46.840 --> 00:25:50.560
Typically people that search content marketing services.

00:25:51.070 --> 00:25:53.681
Have their checkbook out and they're comparing vendors.

00:25:53.861 --> 00:25:59.050
It's a damn good keyword to rank for because as direct commercial direct tie to revenue.

00:25:59.681 --> 00:26:00.701
And we can measure this.

00:26:00.730 --> 00:26:03.010
Like we get a hundred visitors per month.

00:26:03.351 --> 00:26:07.871
search, content marketing services, one out of four of them.

00:26:07.931 --> 00:26:10.361
We'll fill out a form and then.

00:26:11.020 --> 00:26:13.480
One out of two of those will get allocated out.

00:26:13.691 --> 00:26:18.520
And then one out of five of those will turn into actual deals, right?

00:26:18.550 --> 00:26:21.101
So this, you can make this, it's not much of a jump.

00:26:21.161 --> 00:26:22.871
You can make a connection between this keyword.

00:26:23.320 --> 00:26:24.040
And driving money.

00:26:24.101 --> 00:26:35.461
You can do that with every single business, no matter how obscure it is that they make their money or that it's affiliate marketing, or whether it's just a blog, where they drive ad revenue.

00:26:35.671 --> 00:26:37.020
You can always make that jump to.

00:26:37.260 --> 00:26:40.590
Some money, as long as you figure out that very basic format.

00:26:40.621 --> 00:26:42.121
So good SEO will do that.

00:26:42.151 --> 00:26:45.421
They will always try to figure out how to get traffic to your site.

00:26:45.691 --> 00:26:48.480
That's going to spend money with you or create money for you.

00:26:49.121 --> 00:26:54.161
And then they should also focus on the other side of your site, which would be nurture.

00:26:54.221 --> 00:26:56.740
And that's like a blog, the whole reason why you create a blog.

00:26:57.431 --> 00:26:59.201
And so you can drive traffic to your site.

00:26:59.891 --> 00:27:03.101
For people that are looking for answers to questions that you can.

00:27:03.671 --> 00:27:06.611
That you can answer, or like somebody asks a question.

00:27:06.641 --> 00:27:07.780
What is content marketing?

00:27:08.560 --> 00:27:10.151
They're not in a buyer's mood.

00:27:10.661 --> 00:27:11.651
They just want to learn.

00:27:12.161 --> 00:27:14.381
However, if I answered that question, they come to my site.

00:27:14.691 --> 00:27:21.980
I will answer that question for them and hopefully put them on my newsletter with a popup or some sort of form, and then I can nurture them.

00:27:22.221 --> 00:27:22.820
Down the road.

00:27:23.181 --> 00:27:27.951
To a point when they might be in the buyer mood and they might be the person that searches.

00:27:28.550 --> 00:27:31.790
Not what is content marketing, but content marketing services.

00:27:32.371 --> 00:27:34.921
So in SEO should think of a website is two sides.

00:27:34.921 --> 00:27:36.750
One the commercial side that drives that.

00:27:37.201 --> 00:27:38.101
Buyer intent.

00:27:38.340 --> 00:27:40.740
And then the other side is the blog side, which drives that.

00:27:41.010 --> 00:27:42.661
What'd you call it informational intent.

00:27:42.931 --> 00:27:43.861
And then nurture.

00:27:44.401 --> 00:27:44.671
Really.

00:27:44.701 --> 00:27:49.881
So if you do those two things, you're a pretty good SEO and you're doing a good thing for your, for your client.

00:27:51.374 --> 00:27:54.223
Hey, it's Eric here and we'll be right back to the podcast.

00:27:54.223 --> 00:27:59.084
But first, are you ready to grow, scale, and take your marketing to the next level?

00:27:59.294 --> 00:28:05.653
If so, The Five Echelon Group's Virtual CMO onsulting service may be a great fit for you.

00:28:05.923 --> 00:28:11.834
We can help build a strategic marketing plan for your business and manage its execution, step-by-step.

00:28:12.074 --> 00:28:14.624
We'll focus on areas like how to attract more leads.

00:28:14.894 --> 00:28:19.034
How to create compelling messaging that resonates with your ideal customers.

00:28:19.394 --> 00:28:22.963
How to strategically package and position your products and services.

00:28:23.294 --> 00:28:27.703
How to increase lead conversion, improve your margins, and scale your business.

00:28:28.034 --> 00:28:35.804
To find out more about our consulting offerings and schedule a consultation, go to fiveechelon.com and click on Services.

00:28:36.253 --> 00:28:37.513
Now back to the podcast.

00:28:40.767 --> 00:28:42.626
Let's talk a little bit about that blog side.

00:28:42.656 --> 00:28:45.086
So let's say I've got a website.

00:28:45.477 --> 00:28:46.257
Put it together.

00:28:46.287 --> 00:28:47.876
My technical SEO looks good.

00:28:47.876 --> 00:28:52.757
I've got good product pages And now I'm going to write a blog and I sell blue widgets.

00:28:52.757 --> 00:28:57.467
So I'm going to write a blog on top 10 blue widgets, and I know I've done my keyword research.

00:28:57.886 --> 00:29:00.557
And blue widgets gets pretty good search volume.

00:29:00.767 --> 00:29:04.826
So I go and I create an article on top 10 blue widgets.

00:29:05.457 --> 00:29:07.136
And I'm a WordPress user.

00:29:07.166 --> 00:29:14.636
So I've got Yoast or I've got a Rank Math installed to be able to do an SEO analysis of my article.

00:29:14.997 --> 00:29:19.376
It's coming back as a green light in your cluster, a score and rank math.

00:29:19.467 --> 00:29:20.846
So everything's looking good.

00:29:20.876 --> 00:29:21.807
I hit publish.

00:29:22.076 --> 00:29:25.436
Have I done everything that I need to do for SEO for that article?

00:29:25.636 --> 00:29:26.027
those tools.

00:29:26.057 --> 00:29:27.017
Aren't going to do anything for you.

00:29:27.076 --> 00:29:28.186
So I'll just throw that out there.

00:29:28.517 --> 00:29:31.517
I did a study like a long term study with.

00:29:31.798 --> 00:29:40.648
nine months worth of data points from Brafton content to see if there's any relationship between content performance, keyword performance, and these different factors.

00:29:40.648 --> 00:29:42.838
One of them was the Yoast screen light thing.

00:29:43.548 --> 00:29:54.078
I was trying to prove if there's any relationship between those two things and specifically in there, like a big part of that green light is you enter your keyword and it shows you, did you use enough keyword density?

00:29:54.878 --> 00:29:56.048
Did you use a keyword enough?

00:29:56.558 --> 00:30:00.068
And so I measure performance relative to keyword density.

00:30:00.068 --> 00:30:01.929
There is no relationship between those two things.

00:30:02.288 --> 00:30:06.009
So using, doing that keyword density thing and that little green light.

00:30:06.338 --> 00:30:09.038
Is most likely not going to do anything for you at all.

00:30:09.509 --> 00:30:10.798
Same thing with the workout.

00:30:10.959 --> 00:30:12.999
I used a correlation.

00:30:13.568 --> 00:30:19.719
A correlation formula to see if there's any relationship between word, length and performance.

00:30:19.719 --> 00:30:22.538
There's not, there's almost perfectly zero relationship.

00:30:23.078 --> 00:30:24.009
Serial correlation.

00:30:24.669 --> 00:30:27.729
So what you need to do, in order to.

00:30:28.128 --> 00:30:32.239
Satisfy the SEO gods with your content is to do what you did.

00:30:32.269 --> 00:30:33.409
You picked a good keyword.

00:30:33.439 --> 00:30:33.949
You liked it.

00:30:33.949 --> 00:30:35.088
You found a good search volume.

00:30:35.598 --> 00:30:37.999
But then the trick is to.

00:30:38.568 --> 00:30:45.251
Write the content in such a way that you fully satisfy the intent of the searcher, right?

00:30:45.761 --> 00:30:52.362
So imagine if you search for something, a scenario where you search for something and you land on a page.

00:30:53.051 --> 00:30:56.261
The answer is every single one of your questions you could possibly have about that topic.

00:30:56.922 --> 00:31:02.592
You have no reason to go back into search results and weave together more information through other search results.

00:31:02.711 --> 00:31:05.112
You've done everything that you possibly need.

00:31:05.832 --> 00:31:07.451
That's the goal of writing the content.

00:31:07.991 --> 00:31:16.961
So when you land on that keyword that you want to rank for, it's your job to answer every potential topic somebody would ever want to know about that.

00:31:16.991 --> 00:31:19.001
Just imagine you're writing a Wikipedia page.

00:31:19.642 --> 00:31:21.112
And there's ways that you can do this.

00:31:21.152 --> 00:31:25.652
More quantitative rather than qualitative ways that you can do this.

00:31:25.652 --> 00:31:26.852
You don't have to do it by instinct.

00:31:27.442 --> 00:31:28.432
You can do it manually.

00:31:28.642 --> 00:31:35.682
And by he picked that keyword and then you just go through the search results and you see what people are writing about.

00:31:35.981 --> 00:31:40.092
Make note of all the major topics that they discuss, like topic is discussed by.

00:31:40.632 --> 00:31:42.321
80% of first page results.

00:31:42.342 --> 00:31:45.011
Topic bees discussed by 20%.

00:31:45.612 --> 00:31:50.321
And then you've got this weighted priority list of all the potential topics you could possibly talk about.

00:31:50.951 --> 00:31:52.152
From all the results.

00:31:52.721 --> 00:32:04.362
So with this information, theoretically, you would have a exact blueprint on everything you could possibly talk about and exactly how you should wait it and out which areas you should emphasize.

00:32:04.951 --> 00:32:13.201
So really you're grabbing, you're stealing ideas from everybody, and you're going to write something more comprehensive than anybody out there.

00:32:13.771 --> 00:32:16.442
Which would do a better job for the reader.

00:32:16.961 --> 00:32:17.922
Google knows this.

00:32:17.951 --> 00:32:21.551
Google knows how well you cover a particular topic.

00:32:22.241 --> 00:32:28.701
So when you write on that topic, if you've got better content, the better satisfies the reader, you're in a rank way better.

00:32:28.882 --> 00:32:30.682
And we've done this in experiments.

00:32:30.761 --> 00:32:31.902
started doing this back in.

00:32:32.011 --> 00:32:33.301
2018.

00:32:33.751 --> 00:32:41.412
And our page one keyword rankings have gone from, about 400 to 2,500 in two years.

00:32:41.501 --> 00:32:42.281
Something like that.

00:32:42.612 --> 00:32:49.231
Our traffic is, more than tripled over that time period, just by using this one particular technique.

00:32:49.721 --> 00:32:52.241
As a matter of fact, it happens almost instantaneously too.

00:32:52.602 --> 00:32:57.211
So if you take an old now, imagine you take an old piece of content that's, it doesn't really perform very well.

00:32:57.241 --> 00:32:59.251
Like you've got a keyword that ranks and position.

00:32:59.761 --> 00:33:01.832
Nine or 10 just gets a few clicks.

00:33:02.231 --> 00:33:08.412
We will do that will make the piece of content more comprehensive, republish it, and then see what the results look like.

00:33:09.011 --> 00:33:13.632
And so I did this a few times and I took where we ranked beforehand.

00:33:14.021 --> 00:33:15.192
I updated the content.

00:33:15.942 --> 00:33:17.501
And I resubmitted it to Google.

00:33:17.711 --> 00:33:20.741
And within 60 seconds, we went from position three to one.

00:33:21.192 --> 00:33:27.612
Another case we went from 32 to four from 10 to four within a snap of the fingers.

00:33:27.682 --> 00:33:30.711
you're immediately driving five X more traffic.

00:33:31.192 --> 00:33:32.541
And sustainably.

00:33:32.541 --> 00:33:35.241
So we know this technique works really well.

00:33:35.602 --> 00:33:42.832
And what I really like about it is it's much easier to comprehend than all this technical SEO stuff they were talking about are small business owners.

00:33:43.011 --> 00:33:45.142
Yeah, you tell them here's your keyword.

00:33:46.011 --> 00:33:49.311
This is how you write really good content, really easy to.

00:33:50.001 --> 00:33:50.991
To internalize that.

00:33:51.951 --> 00:33:59.872
So when you said that you republished it, you republish it as a new page, or do you just republish the old page with the additional content?

00:34:00.142 --> 00:34:01.521
So you keep the same URL.

00:34:01.771 --> 00:34:02.432
Same page.

00:34:03.271 --> 00:34:05.402
Same page, same exact URL.

00:34:05.730 --> 00:34:09.539
Um, rewrite the content and then republish it with the current date.

00:34:09.916 --> 00:34:10.545
Is the key.

00:34:11.369 --> 00:34:24.349
What I heard from you is in my earlier example, I said that I've seen, especially for keywords that I know I go after is I look at the top couple of rankings and maybe they're very short, little post, 500 word articles let's say those are the top three.

00:34:24.710 --> 00:34:33.739
If I would come out with a post, a 2000 word posts that would encompass the ideas of those top three and publish that as a page, an article.

00:34:33.739 --> 00:34:35.929
that is in sort of encapsulating what you're talking about.

00:34:35.929 --> 00:34:40.699
You're taking the best ideas from those shorter or other competitive pages.

00:34:40.699 --> 00:34:43.909
And you're saying now the reader could get all of that information in one.

00:34:44.110 --> 00:34:44.949
That's exactly right.

00:34:44.980 --> 00:34:58.599
And that's something that, especially if you're competing against somebody with, I'm glad you mentioned domain authority earlier, because if you're say your website's a domain authority of 30 and at one that's ranking, number one has a domain authority of 60.

00:34:58.989 --> 00:35:02.500
Then they're seeing are ready as more reputable than you.

00:35:02.500 --> 00:35:07.119
So you have to do extra work with your content just to keep up because you're punching.

00:35:07.750 --> 00:35:09.010
Punching up Hill, right?

00:35:09.369 --> 00:35:20.650
So you may be able to compete with them if you overcompensate with better content and you would actually have to overcompensate with better content because they're already, they already got a headstart.

00:35:20.710 --> 00:35:22.510
they got a five second head start the sprint.

00:35:22.539 --> 00:35:23.530
So you need to catch up.

00:35:23.929 --> 00:35:27.139
How does this compare to a pillar page strategy?

00:35:27.139 --> 00:35:34.429
So maybe define for the audience what a pillar page is, and then what you think of that as a strategy in terms of your website design.

00:35:35.389 --> 00:35:38.289
So pillar page is a core concept.

00:35:38.739 --> 00:35:38.980
Alright.

00:35:39.010 --> 00:35:46.269
So say I want to rank for something broad, like inbound marketing, there's so much that goes into inbound marketing.

00:35:46.489 --> 00:35:49.849
you could take two different approaches to this.

00:35:49.940 --> 00:35:55.670
You could write an entire tome about inbound marketing on one particular page covering.

00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:58.519
All the different facets of it.

00:35:58.639 --> 00:36:02.750
SEO, email marketing, content writing.

00:36:03.110 --> 00:36:08.960
And the whole kit and caboodle on one page, or you can make that like a core hub page.

00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:10.820
Would you call a pillar page?

00:36:11.449 --> 00:36:22.039
And have this page cover all the main ideas, the concepts of inbound marketing, but it links out to other individual pages that support it.

00:36:22.309 --> 00:36:23.630
So this is the pillar.

00:36:23.989 --> 00:36:34.250
And then the support for the pillar would be an entire article about email marketing and the entire article about SEO, an entire article about keyword research.

00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:40.409
So it links to all of these resources that support the main concept of inbound marketing.

00:36:40.739 --> 00:36:42.809
So you've done is you created this pillar of.

00:36:43.340 --> 00:36:46.579
strength that are supported by a whole bunch of other very strong.

00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:50.219
Topics in their own little niche, right?

00:36:50.219 --> 00:36:58.690
So you've nailed every one of those niches talking about everything you could possibly talk about and, covering all the main subtopics of that niche.

00:36:58.809 --> 00:37:01.510
And all of those are linking into a main page.

00:37:01.849 --> 00:37:03.139
that started me inbound marketing.

00:37:03.170 --> 00:37:04.039
So this is.

00:37:04.280 --> 00:37:10.340
A pillar page is basically just a, an awesome resource center that supports a broad topic and it gives you.

00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:12.710
A good chance of ranking for that keyword.

00:37:12.710 --> 00:37:18.469
Probably a better chance of ranking for that keyword because it shows a very strong topic authority.

00:37:18.869 --> 00:37:24.000
It's a lot of work to put one together, but if you do it right, it can really benefit the business.

00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:31.679
Yeah, if you wanna, if you want to rent from a very broad core term to your business, that's a very good way to do it.

00:37:31.769 --> 00:37:32.250
Definitely.

00:37:32.650 --> 00:37:41.019
One of the things that I think is challenging as a business designs, their web presence is it seems like they're conflicting.

00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:42.380
priorities.

00:37:42.630 --> 00:37:51.659
Number one, you want to have a presence that explains what you do in a way that supports key words so that it can be found.

00:37:51.659 --> 00:37:53.280
You don't want to jumble too much together.

00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:55.769
So you design your website to break up topics.

00:37:56.340 --> 00:38:02.969
But you've got to have enough texts there so that Google understands what it is that you're trying to talk about at the same time.

00:38:02.969 --> 00:38:11.389
There's a lot of focus now on video, on pictures, on reducing the amount of text, because people don't like to read a lot on a web page.

00:38:11.750 --> 00:38:17.989
And then you've also got this issue of mobile friendliness, where now things even have to be condensed further.

00:38:17.989 --> 00:38:19.909
You don't want to have a lot of heavy graphics.

00:38:19.909 --> 00:38:22.849
You don't want to have too much text cause people aren't going to read that on mobile.

00:38:23.420 --> 00:38:31.150
And so all of these things together seem to, in some ways, conflict in terms of how you build out your website for SEO,

00:38:32.349 --> 00:38:32.590
Yeah.

00:38:33.309 --> 00:38:33.610
Yeah.

00:38:34.146 --> 00:38:40.356
if you do that strategy, I just prescribed and writing content to cover fully cover a topic.

00:38:40.956 --> 00:38:42.547
An early, that content is going to be longer.

00:38:42.876 --> 00:38:44.166
It's just going to be longer content.

00:38:44.547 --> 00:38:45.297
and the.

00:38:45.867 --> 00:38:52.047
Main struggle people have is how do you accommodate that on a page in such a way that it's not terrible to look at?

00:38:52.637 --> 00:38:53.536
like you mentioned.

00:38:54.077 --> 00:38:55.097
Do people want to read?

00:38:55.157 --> 00:38:56.266
giant walls of text?

00:38:56.297 --> 00:38:57.257
No, of course they don't.

00:38:57.717 --> 00:39:04.286
so your content writing and your web development have to be seamless really?

00:39:04.666 --> 00:39:09.766
What we do is if we're going to write a landing page, it's going to be 2000 words.

00:39:10.217 --> 00:39:17.117
We have to write the content first and then hand that over to somebody that works in development and graphic design.

00:39:17.476 --> 00:39:21.827
Does design that out in a way that flows well, so that it's not overwhelming.

00:39:22.347 --> 00:39:24.476
So you have to figure out ways to.

00:39:25.016 --> 00:39:26.967
Chunk the text we read in chunks.

00:39:26.996 --> 00:39:29.726
We don't read in massive walls of texts.

00:39:29.757 --> 00:39:31.407
We read in small paragraphs.

00:39:31.407 --> 00:39:32.427
It's just the way our brain works.

00:39:32.666 --> 00:39:36.117
So you have to figure out a way to break this thing up into small paragraphs.

00:39:36.416 --> 00:39:43.197
generally supported by some sort of visual to break up the eye gives it the visual, gives your eyes a break and your brain a break.

00:39:43.677 --> 00:39:47.157
And then when you're done with the visual, it keeps you reading into the next section.

00:39:47.606 --> 00:39:49.047
So generally that's what we try to do.

00:39:49.047 --> 00:39:50.126
And that's the whole point.

00:39:50.606 --> 00:39:59.757
Really of like graphics, like you talked about in video, it just gives you your brain, a different type of media to consume in between.

00:40:00.237 --> 00:40:01.827
Reading, all the texts.

00:40:02.157 --> 00:40:07.887
And so you get a break, you get like textbook, you get work, get a break, you get a textbook, you get work.

00:40:08.317 --> 00:40:12.097
and if you have that seamless flow, you can keep somebody engaged throughout the page.

00:40:12.666 --> 00:40:14.016
So it's not an easy task.

00:40:14.016 --> 00:40:16.206
you write all this content and how do you get it on the site?

00:40:16.286 --> 00:40:17.306
you really have to think.

00:40:17.356 --> 00:40:20.385
Creatively about how would I want to read all of this content?

00:40:20.925 --> 00:40:21.615
there was a problem.

00:40:22.275 --> 00:40:26.235
A lot of times people are, we're very self centered as businesses and business owners.

00:40:26.235 --> 00:40:27.795
We think people care about our content.

00:40:27.795 --> 00:40:28.815
They absolutely do not.

00:40:29.655 --> 00:40:32.175
You have to, they don't care about you.

00:40:32.235 --> 00:40:34.396
and they're not going to be as interested in it as you are.

00:40:34.396 --> 00:40:39.286
So you have to figure out ways that if you were them, how would you want to consume this content?

00:40:39.315 --> 00:40:44.626
How could you make it interesting in such a way that other people would want to get through the entirety of it?

00:40:45.135 --> 00:40:47.885
And a lot of times that involves, Natural human behavior.

00:40:47.996 --> 00:40:49.045
We'd like to look at pictures.

00:40:49.106 --> 00:40:52.496
We'd like to look at video and break it up in such a way that makes it very interesting.

00:40:53.096 --> 00:40:54.536
And this is a very indirect.

00:40:55.025 --> 00:40:56.646
tied to rankings as well.

00:40:56.695 --> 00:41:02.335
if you keep a visitor on a page, For a long time before they go back to search results.

00:41:02.396 --> 00:41:07.166
That's an indicator that sends Google a signal that people stayed on there for a long period of time.

00:41:07.856 --> 00:41:08.876
For a good reason.

00:41:09.085 --> 00:41:16.255
Whereas on the flip side, if you've got this page with a giant wall of text, see people, or you assume people are gonna read, they're absolutely not.

00:41:16.286 --> 00:41:17.425
They're going to see that wall texts.

00:41:17.485 --> 00:41:21.326
They're gonna panic thing, our freeze over, and then they go right back to search results and find something.

00:41:21.775 --> 00:41:23.126
Something easier to consume.

00:41:23.425 --> 00:41:26.936
That's also a signal to Google that's probably not a good result for them.

00:41:27.516 --> 00:41:31.476
I'm glad you mentioned that because that is, that has to work with this program.

00:41:31.565 --> 00:41:36.606
You can't just write tons of content and dump it in novel format and hope people are going to read it.

00:41:36.606 --> 00:41:37.536
That's just not gonna work.

00:41:37.835 --> 00:41:39.576
Yeah, that's so true.

00:41:39.996 --> 00:41:55.626
I know we're third of coming up on our time here, but before we wrap this up, I would love just to hear from your perspective, if you were a newer business or a business that really hasn't put much of a focus on SEO with an existing website.

00:41:56.286 --> 00:42:03.914
What are some pieces of actionable advice that you could give somebody to say, okay, we're starting a program today around SEO.

00:42:04.184 --> 00:42:08.083
What are some actionable things that we could do here within the next?

00:42:08.233 --> 00:42:10.003
Let's say couple of months.

00:42:10.514 --> 00:42:15.434
To start to build a process of getting us to rank on Google.

00:42:15.833 --> 00:42:16.313
Yeah.

00:42:16.373 --> 00:42:16.704
Okay.

00:42:16.704 --> 00:42:21.623
So I always start, we talked to earlier about getting your commercial landing pages down.

00:42:22.224 --> 00:42:24.563
I always start with that with a brand new website.

00:42:24.903 --> 00:42:29.313
You're gonna want to figure out what are my products and or services.

00:42:30.003 --> 00:42:35.583
And then through keyword research, you're going to want to figure out what people are searching to get those products or services.

00:42:36.094 --> 00:42:38.434
A lot of times it's not going to be the same language that you use.

00:42:38.534 --> 00:42:45.653
You're so in the weeds with your business, you're going to use different terminology probably, then your audiences.

00:42:45.653 --> 00:42:51.233
So you're going to find out you're going to want to meet your audience where they are, and you're gonna want to figure out what they're searching to find your products.

00:42:52.014 --> 00:43:00.353
And you want them to be, want to find keywords that people are using where they're definitely going to buy something and what you'd call commercial intent.

00:43:00.384 --> 00:43:01.914
Like we talked about before.

00:43:02.423 --> 00:43:04.554
So I would start with keyword research.

00:43:04.954 --> 00:43:13.114
I would find out what those words are and then once you are selling on what those words are right out, a couple product landing pages.

00:43:13.684 --> 00:43:15.664
Using the techniques we talked about before.

00:43:16.204 --> 00:43:22.833
Two really cover the depths of those services and everything somebody would want to know about those services that you provide.

00:43:23.403 --> 00:43:29.224
So nailed down that part, cause it has the most commercially relevant, impact on your site.

00:43:29.704 --> 00:43:35.583
So keyword research, content writing, build out those pages and that's very manageable for us.

00:43:35.614 --> 00:43:47.143
A small business owner just getting started because you're looking at, you probably don't have that many products yet are likely looking at maybe between could just be one, could just be your homepage a lot of times, and that's fine.

00:43:47.224 --> 00:43:51.423
Or maybe it's a homepage and two solutions pages could just be three pages.

00:43:51.934 --> 00:43:57.844
So taking that first bite is going to have the most commercially relevant impact.

00:43:58.244 --> 00:43:59.744
and it's also worth noting that.

00:44:00.164 --> 00:44:02.893
As part of that study that I did, I wanted to know.

00:44:02.983 --> 00:44:05.264
I wanted to see how long it'll take for this stuff to work.

00:44:05.684 --> 00:44:11.923
Generally, when you create a new piece of content, it takes a hundred to 150 days for it to show us potential.

00:44:12.293 --> 00:44:17.634
So the second you get that thing up there, you get those four product pages up there.

00:44:17.664 --> 00:44:18.384
You can start.

00:44:18.923 --> 00:44:21.773
Start your timer and you can say, all right.

00:44:22.313 --> 00:44:25.554
In a hundred to 150 days, maybe I can start to see results.

00:44:25.974 --> 00:44:27.474
So it's up to you.

00:44:27.474 --> 00:44:31.224
And when you start that timer, but obviously you're going to want to start that as soon as possible.

00:44:31.974 --> 00:44:32.634
And by results.

00:44:32.664 --> 00:44:36.603
Do you mean an initial ranking or, top page ranking?

00:44:36.824 --> 00:44:45.134
Starting to rank and then around 150 to 180 days, like that's the one, you'll see a piece of content generally, max out.

00:44:45.824 --> 00:44:51.193
That's probably where you're gonna see your true ranking potentials like around half a year or so.

00:44:51.583 --> 00:44:55.333
So if you see in about half a year, you're in position nine.

00:44:55.963 --> 00:44:57.164
It's probably where you're going to be.

00:44:57.344 --> 00:45:00.403
And maybe you need to do some work to get that page up there.

00:45:00.434 --> 00:45:02.474
You may be needed to do better content writing.

00:45:02.864 --> 00:45:06.403
Or you need to assess the competition a little bit better.

00:45:06.434 --> 00:45:10.364
Maybe you are punching too high above your weight class and you can't compete.

00:45:10.393 --> 00:45:11.773
You need to find a different keyword.

00:45:12.284 --> 00:45:16.443
so first starters, some keyword research on your products and services.

00:45:16.543 --> 00:45:21.434
I published a piece of content on how to do keyword research just came out about three or four weeks ago.

00:45:21.804 --> 00:45:25.693
it's pretty comprehensive anybody that's doing keyword research for the first time.

00:45:26.023 --> 00:45:27.523
Can probably follow it pretty easy.

00:45:27.554 --> 00:45:27.764
It'll.

00:45:28.213 --> 00:45:29.474
Show you how to do it.

00:45:29.534 --> 00:45:30.793
And there's a couple of templates in there.

00:45:31.094 --> 00:45:39.914
On where to put your content or where to put your data for your keywords and how to choose the right types of keywords should be fairly easy to follow.

00:45:40.664 --> 00:45:42.253
And then write the content and get alive.

00:45:42.403 --> 00:45:51.643
That's the main thing is just focus on just a couple pages really nail that down and get them up and live and then the second part of that is start to build out a blog, right?

00:45:51.673 --> 00:45:54.554
Using the same techniques with keyword research, build out your blog.

00:45:55.094 --> 00:45:56.744
And start collecting emails.

00:45:57.014 --> 00:46:00.193
The entire purpose of a blog is really to collect emails.

00:46:00.594 --> 00:46:03.443
Which is like a weird thing that nobody even thinks about.

00:46:03.474 --> 00:46:05.173
It's yeah, somebody, why do they have a blog?

00:46:05.173 --> 00:46:08.684
And they'd be like, because you need to have a blog or because I want to drive traffic.

00:46:09.344 --> 00:46:11.083
One of the things really do anything for you though.

00:46:11.114 --> 00:46:13.454
Do you have spent a lot of time writing a blog?

00:46:13.844 --> 00:46:14.833
What good is traffic?

00:46:15.103 --> 00:46:17.353
That's just not going to buy anything right.

00:46:17.744 --> 00:46:21.434
None of that's traffic that comes in at your blog ever buys anytime they bounced at a high rate.

00:46:21.974 --> 00:46:26.443
So that second part would be start a blog and understand why I blog exists.

00:46:26.503 --> 00:46:28.184
Blog exists to nurture people.

00:46:28.543 --> 00:46:30.943
So you're probably gonna want to incorporate that with some sort of.

00:46:31.603 --> 00:46:33.853
Very basic email program, right?

00:46:33.963 --> 00:46:35.284
collect an email address.

00:46:35.824 --> 00:46:40.474
You use a popup, your conversions will go up 500% as opposed to not using a popup.

00:46:40.983 --> 00:46:41.704
He's a popup.

00:46:42.034 --> 00:46:44.103
And just start emailing once a week.

00:46:44.103 --> 00:46:48.813
Newsletter could be as simple as here's the most recent article that I wrote this week.

00:46:49.173 --> 00:46:51.153
Send it out to your audience and keep them nurtured.

00:46:51.543 --> 00:46:53.014
The whole reason why you create a blog.

00:46:53.704 --> 00:46:57.543
So for the tear, these things to your one, get your products and service pages mailed down.

00:46:57.753 --> 00:46:58.864
Write really good content.

00:46:59.014 --> 00:47:06.023
Get it live as soon as possible, or to get a blog going and start nurturing people through a newsletter, to the point where they're actually ready to.

00:47:06.563 --> 00:47:08.784
Hopefully buy something from you at some point in the future.

00:47:08.983 --> 00:47:12.193
Then all the other stuff has nuance, the technical SEO, all the other stuff.

00:47:12.224 --> 00:47:13.244
That's just nuance.

00:47:13.664 --> 00:47:17.074
Unless you break something, you'd probably be okay on your own

00:47:17.744 --> 00:47:22.003
And the blog content should be tangentially related to your primary business.

00:47:22.403 --> 00:47:25.773
Yeah, it should be questions that people are asking related to your business.

00:47:25.813 --> 00:47:29.514
We're in content marketing, people will be asking, how do I do a newsletter?

00:47:29.733 --> 00:47:30.543
How do I write content?

00:47:30.543 --> 00:47:35.523
That's going to rank, that's all like dead central to the, to our authority, what we do.

00:47:35.853 --> 00:47:38.824
So we're going to write that content and we're going to answer those questions.

00:47:38.884 --> 00:47:39.634
Most people aren't buying.

00:47:39.634 --> 00:47:41.943
Like I said, anybody searching that they're not buying anytime.

00:47:42.304 --> 00:47:44.403
but they might subscribe to our newsletter.

00:47:44.733 --> 00:47:52.963
So topics that are related to what you do and finding out questions, the people that your potential audience are asking, you can get that through keyword research.

00:47:53.353 --> 00:47:57.494
You can also get that just by asking to people, asking people, ask your friend, alright.

00:47:57.554 --> 00:48:00.253
If you're searching for a blah, blah, blah, what kind of things would you ask?

00:48:00.773 --> 00:48:02.364
because it's really about your audience.

00:48:02.364 --> 00:48:03.114
It's not about you.

00:48:03.384 --> 00:48:06.983
And you'll get really good ideas about blogs that you could potentially write.

00:48:07.014 --> 00:48:09.014
That'll satisfy your searchers.

00:48:10.813 --> 00:48:11.114
Jeff.

00:48:11.114 --> 00:48:12.193
This is fascinating stuff.

00:48:12.403 --> 00:48:13.844
We could talk for hours on it.

00:48:13.987 --> 00:48:22.027
I think those tips that you gave, especially at the end, there are really helpful for businesses that are just starting to put some focus on SEO and want to know what to do next.

00:48:22.208 --> 00:48:26.467
How can people find you in the article that you mentioned on doing keyword research?

00:48:27.021 --> 00:48:31.460
Sure you can find I've got a profile on a Moz, moz.com.

00:48:31.860 --> 00:48:42.891
They have a blog where SEO is an industry in the industry contribute original research and one of those pieces I did was analyzing seven ranking factors.

00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:45.420
I can send you the link to it afterwards.

00:48:45.780 --> 00:48:50.221
Helpful to give you a level set on what actually matters in SEO, that particular article.

00:48:50.400 --> 00:48:52.320
So I've got six articles published there.

00:48:52.351 --> 00:48:53.851
You can also find me on Brafton.

00:48:53.876 --> 00:48:54.775
Brafton.com.

00:48:54.775 --> 00:49:01.585
I'm the CMO there, and we do content marketing services and we also run a podcast called Above the Fold.

00:49:02.155 --> 00:49:08.655
It's unstructured, chaos, where we just talk about all things marketing related, sometimes not marketing related.

00:49:08.916 --> 00:49:10.376
But we have a lot of fun on there.

00:49:10.405 --> 00:49:11.126
So you can find me on

00:49:13.496 --> 00:49:13.945
That's great.

00:49:13.945 --> 00:49:17.215
And I'll make sure to have all of that in the show notes so that people can find it.

00:49:17.456 --> 00:49:19.226
Jeff, I really appreciate your time today.

00:49:19.226 --> 00:49:20.606
This has been very helpful.

00:49:20.606 --> 00:49:21.476
It's great interview.

00:49:21.476 --> 00:49:23.425
I think a lot of great content for the audience.

00:49:23.425 --> 00:49:25.675
So thanks for taking a few minutes out to talk today.

00:49:26.246 --> 00:49:26.786
Hey, Eric.

00:49:27.085 --> 00:49:27.925
Thanks so much for having me.

00:49:27.985 --> 00:49:28.525
It's been fun.

00:49:31.608 --> 00:49:35.117
Thank you for joining us on this episode of The Virtual CMO podcast.

00:49:35.268 --> 00:49:42.768
For more episodes, go to fiveechelon.com/podcast to subscribe through your podcast player of choice.

00:49:43.128 --> 00:49:53.208
And if you'd like to develop consistent lead flow and a highly effective marketing strategy, visit fiveechelon.com to learn more about our Virtual CMO consulting services.